Our dear Chris and Q5:51 and more bogus claims

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Jul 29, 2007 at 08:40

Ianus provided the following translation for Q5:51

"O Ye who believe take not the Jews and Christians for your friends and protectors. They are but friends and protectors to each other and he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is one of them"

Then the usual Quranic blah...blah...blah.

Then our dear Chris wrote his first gem

>actually that last verse you wrote is a poor translation

One word bogus

Well let us see if this is indeed a poor translation as Chris claims.

Well the word friend in Arabic means: Saheb and sadeeq (see Hans Wehr). The root of the Quranic word Awlia' is WLI and the word Wala' means: "friendship, amity, benevolence, good will, fidelity, devotion, loyalty" and for this see page 1100B in Hans Wehr dictionary. As a matter of fact from the Arabic expression: mu3ahadat al-wala' or the treaty of friendship one can very much say that al-awliya are nothing but "special" friends.

Now if we examine the concept of al-mawali where those that wanted to convert to islam and were not HIjazi Arabs they were required to become Arabs first by establishing a friendship with a Hijazi Arab and then now they become arabs and only then they will be able to convert to islam.

Now let us see what the opaque revelation the Qur'an that is really says:

1. Ya ayuha al-ladhina or O you who are

2. aamanu la-tatakhidhu or believe (notice grammatical aspect) do not take

3. al-Yahood wa al-Nasara or the Jews and Christians

3. Awlia' or friends and for this see 4.

4. ba3duhum awlia' ba3din (notice I3rab) or some of them are friends of some

5. wa man yatawalahum ( I susepct that it should be yakunu mawali lahum) or and he who is thier friend(s)

6. minkum fa-inahu minhum or among you, he is from them

Or: O you who are believers do not take Jews and Chrisitans for friends (as) some of them are friends of some and who among you is their friend he is from them

I'm sure that you can get the jist of what the aya is saying

So you see Ianus' translation is really good

Now let us turn to the darling of Muslims Pickthall (who was converted by ignorant Tablighees) he translates the word awlia' as: Friends.

Now if we turn to Dawood (tablighees do not like him but who really cares) whose first language was Arabic he also translates the word awlia' as friends

So you see our dear Chris Ianus' translation is very good and your claim so far is bogus

Oh before I forget could you provide us with a good translation?

Then you wrote

>amongst scholars and linguists there has been a lot of debate over that verse

I read this that Chris' tablighee and Pakistani awlai' I mean friends who know no Arabic are pontificating about a language that they do not know and he Chris have no clue but to believe what they are saying nonsense and all. So much for critical examination of the evidence.

But I will give you a chance: Who are these so called scholars and linguists? could you give me some names? Tablighees and ignorant Pakistanis, Wikipedia and bogus Muslim web sites will not be regarded as evidence. Arabic language qawamees and ma3ajim and evidence from the Muslim masora will be regarded as evidence

And let me help you here: your sources should be from the Muslim masora. Do you know what is really the Muslim masora? I doubt it very much. Again, this claim is also bogus

>The word used fro friends is normally used to mean "protector" or "guardian"

Well let us see: the Arabic word protector means hami (root HMY) and the word guardian means haaris or wasi. I do not see a haaris or a wasi or a hami in the above aya. You claim here is also bogus.

>within that context

What context? Oh I forgot if Muslims get stuck in the poor Islamic falsafa they are told to say: It is the context!

>otherwise my Muslim friends are most definitely violating that aya

No they are not and do you know why? ...why do such Muslims live here in the West when there is a chance according to your bogus tarnslation for Muslims to be a mawali of the Jews and Christians? Your logic is flawed.

>lol

LOL? Wanna share with us what is really funny?

See what happens when your likes become the slaves of a foreign language and culture?

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