Looking forward to Part IV, Moshe!

Submitted by Sword of Islam & The Babies of Beslan (United Kingdom), Jul 17, 2006 at 20:32

"On this background, it was indeed disappointing to discover how easily this dark spirit of anti-Semitism could blow out even your fuses."

Thanks for the kind comments preceding this statement but I would gently suggest that my fuses get blown because of my utter contempt for anti-semitism in principle. That certainly blows my fuses. It's always been incomprehensible to me. I don't know any Jews. I've probably met a number of them and never realised it. Why would I? But as a student of history it's always seemed to me that they've tended to add to the cultures that they they have been involved in and are a polar opposite to so many ethnic groups that only seem to sow dissent. Therefore the only conclusion that I have been able to draw from this observation is that they've been 'victims of their success' and therefore an easy 'mark' for other disenfranchised groups looking to find somebody to blame for their own failures or simply, as was the case in the Middle Ages, as a 'cashcow' to fund a Crusade or two. I don't know.

I would like to think that religion is less of a motivating factor than is commonly believed. Who can say? The Christian of times past bears little relationship to that of Christian present. Hopefully we've evolved as a result of the lessons of WWII. If not, then we'll only have to live it all again. But let's assume that we have. I'd like to think that this ability to evolve is why sets us apart from the typical Islamicist and his 7th century dogma. As I say, I just don't understand where it comes from. But if it makes people mad, and perhaps occasionally irrational, then that should be a source of encouragement rather than disappointment.

But insofar as distortion goes

Submitted by Moshe, Jul 17, 2006 at 05:55

a. I never said that UK is more anti-Semitic than the rest of Europe. I am saying just that it is also not less. As obvious and simple this statement is, you are trying by all means to evade it, and to pretend that you are hearing other things.

The initial point that I challenged was that the UK was specifically an anti-semitic environment. I never asserted that it was especially pro-semitic. So most of my frustration stems from the point that rather than 'evasion' on my part most of the conflict between you and I stems from the fact that you have changed the point being discussed. Even the idea that the UK might be particularly anti-semitic is one that I might be open to if provided with some background material to support it. My personal experience of the EU, in particular France, would tend to refute that claim. It is reassuring that you concur with my position in this regard (France, notwithstanding) but to cite that the UK as neither less nor more anti-semitic renders the entire point null and void. It is a meaningless point when you are responding to a point that doesn't dispute this fact. Given that the UK tends to regard the US as a far more natural ally than it does the EU as a whole this certainly suggests that it has more sympathy for Israel than say, France.

I can't refute history. Heck, I can give you examples of persecution of English Jewry from 10th century England that would make your hair stand on end. Then one can talk about blockades to stop a Jewish exodus to Palestine which hardly seems, in retrospect, to have been practical given the speed of events and the inherently snail-like deliberations of the political elite. We could juxtapose that observation with the 50,000 Jewish refugees that settled here. That doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of the numbers who were murdered but it is a mitigating factor. And quite a lot given the fact that we were being bombed out of existence and in comparison to huge volumes that the US could have accomodated but chose to reject. We could ask ourselves why it was that it took four years and a direct attack on US soil to galvanise them into action. Therefore, let's base our assertions and opinions on recent and current events. Otherwise we'll get nowhere.

My point was to refute an unsubstantiated comment that the the UK was specifically anti-semitic. As yet, nobody has been able, or willing, to contradict the assertion with concrete facts. If they can, good luck to the them. But until such time let's agree to leave the urban legend to the Islamofacists.

Submitted by Moshe, Jul 17, 2006 at 05:55

"The whole world would have called it a justified act of self-defense!"

I've already expanded upon my interpretation of the above statement. At least twice. Suffice to say that I would be very unhappy indeed if there were ever any circumstances under which a genocide would be approved of by the world as a whole. But let's put that one down to misunderstanding.

Submitted by Moshe, Jul 17, 2006 at 05:55

It is a stain on the whole world which stood by and could have helped, but did nothing.

Exactly.

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