Plato Sorry my reply was mistakenly reduced here is the original one!

Submitted by Mansoor (Pakistan), Mar 27, 2009 at 01:08

Plato you wrote!

"Is that why Allah is trying to destroy Pakistan from within? Could you ever have imagined Muslims will be killing off each other in the land of the pure?"

Every true Muslim has to pass a tough test from Lord. Pakistani nation is going through a very tough phase though the world is pointing fingers that Muslims are killing each other but the inside story is totally different.

This part of the world which we call Sub Continent and the country which we call land of pure "Pakistan" enjoyed a peaceful period till the time the then super power U.S.S.R (India's most favorite partner) invaded Afghanistan. The invasion was though very calculated and had aims to reach the warm waters of the gulf region through Pakistan, things never worked that way and the whole adventure ended with the sad demise of U.S.S.R. The aftermath of Russian Invasion was completely a tormented Afghanistan and extremely disturbed Pakistan due to influx of huge population of Afghanis as migrants. Since Pakistan had long and mountainous borders with Afghanistan, it was impossible to stop the influx of Afghans into Pakistani cities.

I can't understand why you ill minded people try to rub serious issues of the History where your own face looks darker than black. India supported U.S.S.R on Afghan issue and never condemned the brutal aggression and atrocities committed by Soviets in Afghanistan. You participated in Moscow Olympics and displayed shameful defiance by rejecting to be the part of the peace loving world community.

My point is that the suffering of the people of this region is due to foreign aggression and misdirected adventure of the Super Powers. Don't blame Islam about the problems which had risen after your own mistakes and conspiracies. All the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan are in extremely revenging mood! Don't blame when you find your own house burning now due to your atrocities committed by your old and new masters I mean USSR and now USA.

You further wrote

"As you say ignorant people deny the truth in front of their eyes. Can you deny that today Muslims are among most backward communities in the world. Can you deny that Muslims are the most violent people in the world causing needless death and destruction in almost every country they live? Can you deny that in Pakistan your schools teach children to hate Hindus and other infidels? Can you deny that the Koran contains hundreds of verses that denigrate non-Muslims and calls for violence against them both here and in the hereafter?"

Many times in the last few years I gave specific answers to your similar questions. But I think you love to repeat the same questions again and again and again. Muslims are not violent, I totally disagree. I never saw you condemning attacks on Gaza where numerous infants died and many were brutally bombed to death. Indian Government and Hindus mostly supported mass killings of Afghanis. The faces of Ram Sena, Bajrang Dal, VHP are extremely black when it comes to atrocities against Minorities specially Muslims ad Christians. You repeat few cases of crimes committed by people who claim to be Muslims but are going away from the original teachings which say that killing one innocent person is like killing of whole humanity. What we see suicide bombers, terrorists and extremists are the outcome of your own aggression against Islam. Be it in Afghanistan or Palestine or Lebanon or Kashmir. When you call Quran has verses to kill infidels, try to read them in context that it was allowed to kill infidels who expelled the Muslims from their houses and who initiated aggression against the Muslims. You will once again shout and will try to turn the matter to another direction.

You raised the point that CNN or other media giants report as they see. Yeah it is like a statue's look. It can see but it can't understand. As a test case let us suppose that you and your most brutal enemy come face to face, your enemy slaps you, kicks you, beats you and insults you, but when you start kicking him and beat him media shows this picture as it happens. Nice Haan! The world would now call you terrorist, brutal assassin or whatever. Nice Joke Plato!! Do not see only one side of the picture try to use your brain too!

About the increase in Muslim population you said "It is so because of uncontrolled births among Muslims and not because infidels are converting in droves". Please don't make me laugh, didn't you see the link I posted to you that speaks about converts but not about the birth rate in particular. You are eating nuts man!

You said "No one wants to interfere with Islam. It is Islam with its claim to being the only true religion and bidding to conquer all other religions that does not let other religions be. Islam began by abusing and ridiculing the pagan beliefs of Arabia. Why does Islam not leave other religions alone?

It is not the matter of calling someone's religion inferior or abusing. Islam fights to bring truth in front. We are not doing window shopping of religion. Today the criteria which people have adopted now is that which religion is more colorful, has traditional festivals, dances, songs and blah blah! The question arises, why we are wasting our time in such things. I am not humiliating or defaming others' belief but please try to understand that the path which you have chosen is purely based on man made illusions with no support or evidence. We call you Kafir because you refuse, you deny, you turn your face from truth. May be you feel that we the Muslims are trying to distract you from true path, but in fact we are on the correct path. We have found our true Lord, who is alone and the creator of the whole universe. He is there to rule, He is ruling since centuries. His designed system is working undisturbed since numerous centuries. When Allah outlines severe punishments to disbelievers it is all due to arrogance and stubbornness of those disbelievers who refuse to accept the truth even if it is completely proven. He is all powerful and He will put the Kafirs into hell because they not only denied the truth, but humiliated with his verses, challenged his powers, gave dirty names to his beloved Prophets. They killed many of them and tried to kill many. They gave false attributes to him and called a human being as his son, they called angels as his daughters (Naoozubillah).

You said!

"I have quoted two verses from the Koran above. Can you comment on these two verses to show that they do not reveal any bias against Christians, Hindus, Ahamadias…? The whole approach of Koran is undiluted bias against all non-Muslims."

I think I have specifically discussed the core issue related to above verses in my previous paragraphs. This is Allah's world and only Allah deserves to be worshiped not the man made illusionary Gods and Idols. Allah's apostle destroyed all those idols at the time of Conquer of Makkah and the Idol worshiping is extremely hated by the Muslims.

You asked "Tell us about some of the positive things about Islam."

Islam declares equality among the people living on earth. Wealth, power, beauty is not the criteria of gaining importance in view of Allah, only "Taqwa" the consciousness elevates the level of the true believer.

Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) never ran behind wealth, he devoted his life for the sake of Islam and worked for propagation and spreading of this only true religion. He did that with help of Allah in mere 23 years time. The beloved Prophet did not leave any towering castle, nor a treasure vault or historic monument or statue of his to be remembered. This shows that he was not after his personal advertisement or any kind of wealth. He did that for one and only true Allah. Allah acknowledged his efforts and declared him the Best among all the mankind. I love my Prophet he is above all the dirty allegations people try to level against him. He was true and his true followers are in fact the true believers.

You raised several points about Taliban. But these are totally one sided stories. Recently Talibani spokesmen revealed that the schools that the world shouts to have been blown up by Taliban were used by Army as their temporary garrisons and they don't want to stop girls from going to school unless covered up in proper way. Moreover, you cannot call real punishment as barbaric. If some culprit is given punishment you cannot call it barbaric. We see so many examples around the world where people are either hanged, put on electric chairs, killed by firing squads and lethal fluids injection. Why don't you call that barbaric?? I just call it double standards…I totally reject your allegations on Talibans.

You said

Over the 1400 year history of Islam which king was prosecuted under Sharia? How many can you name? It is always the king or ruler who decides what is sharia in his land. Could this hadith be the possible reason?

Bukhari Volume 9, Book 89, Number 251:

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever obeys me, obeys Allah, and whoever disobeys me, disobeys Allah, and whoever obeys the ruler I appoint, obeys me, and whoever disobeys him, disobeys me."

Does this hadith apply to rulers who came after the prophet? Ironical isn't it?

You have completely confused approach towards a ruler and a prophet. Prophet is there to implement Allah's rule and he cannot refuse or implement any law of his personal liking. Whatever he says and whatever he asks us to do is perfectly backed and endorsed by the Lord. I don't see many examples that can put me in any confusion that Allah's apostle went away from Allah's commandment. Whenever he did any mistake Allah immediately prompted him.

With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.

[66:1] O Prophet, why do you ban (on your self) something that Allah has made lawful for you, seeking to please your wives? And Allah is Most-Forgiving, Very-Merciful. [66:2] Allah has prescribed (the way of) absolution from your oaths. And Allah is your protector, and He is the All- Knowing, the All-Wise. [66:3] And (remember) when the Prophet told one of his wives something in secret. So, when she disclosed it (to another wife), and Allah made it known to him, he told (the disclosing wife) part of it, and avoided another part. So when he informed her about it, she said, ―Who told you about this?‖ He said, ―I was told of it by the All-Knowing, the All-Aware. [66:4] (O two wives of the Prophet,) If both of you repent to Allah, then (your conduct calls for it, because) your hearts have departed from the correct way. And if you back each other against him (the Prophet), then Allah is his supporter, and Jibra'īl (Gabriel) and righteous believers, and after all that, angels are his helpers. [66:5] It is hoped that, if he divorces you, Allah will give him in your place wives better than you, submissive to Allah, believing, devout, penitent, steadfast in worship, fasting, previously married and virgins.[66:6] O you who believe, save yourselves and your families from a fire, the fuel of which is human beings and stones, appointed on which are angels, stern and severe, who do not disobey Allah in what He orders them, and do whatever they are ordered to do. [66:7] O you who disbelieve, do not make excuses today. You will only be recompensed for what you have been doing.

As for the example of Muslim Rulers what could be a better example than of Hazrat Umer bin Khattab.

http://www.geocities.com/islamimiracles3/Hazrat_Umar_bin_Khattab.htm

My reply is getting lengthy but I want to cover as much aspects as I can.

I can only pray to Allah that the challenges you made to Allah may come back to you. You would one day be able to understand that you were wrong and you disrespected the Creator of the World.

You said!

"The Koran makes it very clear that Allah has reserved plenty of pleasures in the form of women, fruit and wine for those who follow it. What value are good deeds that are done for bribes that are on offer in paradise?

This is not bribe this is reward. All because we stopped ourselves from things which are declared by our Lord as Sin and Prohibited. Allah has extremely better rewards for us in Paradise. He has best partners ready for us, he has the most amazing liquor ready for us, gardens and palaces and much more. We do not need to pay anything for that, just obey his commandments sincerely and build our belief stronger. In our lives Allah has granted us so many things which we cannot repay. We are taking breath, no matter we believe him or not, he never declared that oxygen is free Muslims and disbelievers have to pay tax for its use. He never minimized the fertility of lands we possess. We the people of the world use daily huge quantity of meat, eggs, rice, flour, fruits, vegetables etc etc. It is never reduced nor made scarce. The famine, the disease, the health problems and every bad thing which we see around is all due to our leaving the basics teachings which our Lord clearly mentioned in Quran the glorious.

{O you who believe when you stand for prayer, wash your faces and your hands up to your elbows, and wipe your heads and wash your feet up to your ankles.} (Al-Ma'idah 5:6)

{Indeed Allah loves those who repent and those who keep clean.} (Al-Baqarah 2:22)

{There you will find men who love cleanliness and Allah loves those who are clean.} (At-Tawbah 9:108)

I would also encompass your following questions which you asked!

(- This complex and delicate process was unraveled by unbelieving scientists. The Koran, the book of all knowledge, is a complete blank as regards DNA and the evolutionary processes that brought it into existence.

- All you have told us is that Allah has to waste millions of sperm to get one life going. And He claims to be all-powerful!

- Why does Allah choose to kill off millions before they reach adulthood? And some of those killed off by Allah suffer horrible pain before He snatches their life. What explanation do you have for this, Mansoor?)

You are trying to hide your shame may be or you think I am a fool!. Quran is perfect source of DNA's knowledge and you can find 1000s of links where you can find the proof that Quran is perfect in giving scientific proofs.

Surah Zumar (Chapter 39), Verse 6:

He created you (all) from a single person: then created, of like nature,
his mate; and He sent down for you eight head of cattle in pairs: He
makes you, in the wombs of your mothers, in stages, one after another,
in three veils of darkness. Such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher: to
Him belongs (all) dominion. There is no god but He: then how are ye
turned away (from your true Center)?

The above translation (including the text within the parenthesis) was first published in 1938 from Lahore, India (now Pakistan) by the late Abdullah Yusuf Ali. In his commentary to the above verse (foot note No. 4250), the translator affirms that the four pairs of cattle, viz., sheep, goats, camels and oxen mentioned by him in his translation are associated "with certain Arab superstitions". He continues to write; these four kinds of cattle were then regarded "as representative of domestic cattle given by Allah as useful to man". Upon examination it is noticed that not only Yusuf Ali but the majority of the translators have copied their works from earlier translations upholding the same pre-Islamic superstition. Upon closer scrutiny one notices the fact that the text immediately following this "superstition" is not only out of step but is beyond common sense and logic. Allah could not have revealed that He had sent or provided the pairs of sheep, goats, camels and oxen within a message concerning "in the wombs of mothers, in stages, one after another".

Following are quoted original Arabic text of Quran with Yusuf Ali's translation and translation in view of the modern scientific findings about DNA. You will surely be amazed Plato!

khalaqa kum

He created you (all)

Question posed at the end of this verse demands that the readers of this verse pay special attention to the Message of this verse which unfolds the secrets of "your own creation".

min nafsin' wahidatin

from a single cell

In Arabic language there are no reflective personal pronouns, their place is partly supplied by the word "nafs" (a feminine noun, singular). It denotes soul; life; spirit; breath; will; self; an individual, a human being; a living organism, etc. Since this verse deals with the issue of human conceptions within the womb of their mothers, nafs denotes, a living cell - an organism. The word "nafs" is followed by "wahidatin" meaning; one only; single; by itself and that means your creation is "from a single cell". Scientifically the human cell - the basic unit, is a watery, compartment filled with chemicals and has a complete copy of the organism's genome.

thumma ja'ala minha zawjaha

then created, of like nature, its mate

The word "zawj" means, wife; husband; spouse; companion; one of a pair; consort, mate. The creation of a "mate, of like nature" is a reference to the close pairing of homologs at meiosis. Biologically it is termed as Synapsis, meaning the side by genetic association of homologous maternal chromosomes and paternal paired chromosomes in the early stages of conception. Chromosome is a microscopic thread-like bundle that carries the genes and other DNA in the nucleus of a cell. Humans have 23 pairs of chromosomes, i.e., 46 in all. Half of these chromosomes come from their mothers and the other half from their fathers.

wa 'anzala lakum minal 'an-ami thama-niyata 'azwaj;

and He provided for you eight genes, in pairs

The verb "anzala" means; to cause to descend; to provide. The collective noun "an'am" is used for living creatures. Here it refers to the life bearing Genes. The phrase "thama-niyata 'azwaj" means "eight-in-pairs". This is the reference to the Two Strands of DNA that are held together between the "Base Pair (bp)". Each strand has the GENETIC CODE (ATGC - Adenine, Thymine, Guanine and Cytosine). They makeup the bases of DNA. The instructions in a gene tells the cell how to make a specific protein. Each gene's code combines these As, Ts, Gs and Cs in various ways to spell out the 3-letter "words" that specify which amino acid is needed at every step in making a protein. The final structural arrangement of DNA looks like an immensely long ladder with two sides, twisted into a helix, or coil joined weakly in the middle by the "rungs". It is called the "double helix". Briefly, the two pairs of Genetic Codes (ATGC) are strategically provided within the wombs of our mothers to make the body parts.

yakhluqu kum fee butouni 'ummahati kum

He makes you, in the wombs of your mothers,

khalqam-mim ba'di khalqin

in creations, one after another,

This is a direct reference to the scientific term "DNA Replication". It is the natures greatest marvel. This is a process by which the "double helix" of DNA unwinds (uncoils) and makes an exact copy of itself. And, thereafter these TWO "double helix" make TWO replicas. The multiplication keeps going. Due to this process of "creation after creation", a human child that starts from a single cell has more than 200 billion cells and has all the body parts necessary for life, within a period of nine months. Can one imagine that the original single cell that was so tiny that it could be lost in a hole made by a pin became our Replica?

fee zulumatin thalath.

in three layers of darkness.

The germ layers begin to form quite early in human embryonic development. The outermost layers is called the ectoderm. The innermost layer is the endoderm. Between these two germ layers lies the mesoderm. At first these three germ layers are more or less uniform. Soon they begin to take different characteristics. In each layers of embryo, tissues and organs begin to take shape. Every adult organ is identified with one of these three germ layers of darkness.

Zaliku-mu-LLahu Rabbu kum

Such is Allah, your Lord and Cherisher:

la-hul-mulk.

to Him belongs (all) dominion.

La 'ilaha 'illa Hou.

There is no god but He

Fa-'anna tusrafoun?

then how are you deluded?

Deluded from the reality of your own creation (after having known these hidden facts)?

Instead of acclaiming the masterpiece creativity of our Lord, you tend to deny straightforwardly.

For your many other questions of almost similar background here is my answer!

It is true we have to understand about our position. We cannot be important unless Allah makes us important. We are not the fraction of the part of this whole huge universe, but Allah has called us as Ashraf-ul-Makhlooqaat (The supreme creation). Besides knowing about this noble declaration what are we doing now, we are refusing to accept our position and calling names to our most Gracious and Merciful Creator???? We would have been created as an ant or any animal living in jungle. Shame on every one who is a big denier!! As far as the advancement in latest technology regarding reproduction, just tell me, can human have become able to develop a fresh sperm by themselves without using any thing created by Allah??? Can you claim you can do that??? The scientist which you are proud on are using available miraculous creations of Lord to enhance their knowledge, they cannot create any thing by without using anything created by Allah. It is impossible please agree to it.

You said!

If you count the number of hospital beds in the world you would not consider that Allah has given us a healthy life. If you consider the abject poverty in which millions of people live (Pakistan is a prime example of poverty) you would not consider that Allah has given us a prosperous life

Poverty in the world is all due to man made rules and interest based economy which has reduced the number of riches and enhanced the population of poor people. If the principals of Islam are religiously followed which emphasize voluntarily contribution of Zakat and Charity, if we go for interest free economy where the curse of "bayyaj" is totally eliminated, the poverty level will quickly decrease. The empires of Islam which perished some centuries back did not have any grave problems of poverty and chaos which we now see around the world due to capitalistic economic system.

Why should we reward the creator? We did not ask to be born into this world of misery Allah has created. Besides He claims He is self-sufficient so even thinking of giving a reward to Allah for giving us life is blasphemy.

Don't call it world of misery. The misery around you is because of man made system which has disturbed the balance in society. It is important to acknowledge that our Creator has created every thing around which is so beautiful and worth praising. It is for our own spiritual purity and strength that we repeat and recall what our Lord has granted to us. This makes us feel the love and passion for our beloved Creator. Try to feel it, it sparks spiritual enhancement inside you!!

As for the Wealth of Prophet Muhammad you yourself said

"What is the connection between Muhammad's wealth and Islam?? We do not have perfect knowledge of what he left behind. But we have perfect knowledge of the fact that his daughter who survived him was married to the future Khalifa Ali. We also have perfect knowledge of the fact that the prophet had man, Kinana bin Rafi, tortured to extract the buried treasure of his tribe."

You twisted the question asked by you and try to divert the issue to other matter. Kinana bin Rafi's torture was toooooo minimal of what the Muslims of Makkah were subjected before the great Migration. Kinana was murdered because he was not among those who laid their arms, he was captured and treatment of captured is different always from those who laid their arms. After all it was war not a birthday party!!

Finally for your most hilarious Tafsir for which I am not sure that Allah would forgive you or not!! Let's see this Tafsir from my perspective!

With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.

[82:1] When the sky will be cleft asunder,

Quran used the word Sky many times along with Earth as "He created Skies and Earth" In this verse He has mentioned only one sky which can well be considered as the protective sky carrying ozone layer which has seven layers (please refer this verse too [78:12] And We have built seven strong (skies).

Also refer the following link to understand my point

http://www.speedace.info/solar_cars/solar_car_images/solar_cell_layers_diagram.gif

[82:2] and when the stars will disperse, (It is scientific terminology still used very abundantly)

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/the-formation-of-star-clusters/5

[82:3] and when the seas will be burst forth, [82:4] and when the graves will be overturned, [82:5] then one will know what he sent ahead and what he left behind.

[82:6] O man! What has deceived you about your Gracious Lord!

Indeed, Man after knowing every minor and major evidence of Allah's existence and powers, runs away from reality besides knowing that man himself has no power neither to born by himself, nor to live to the period of his choice. He cannot decide either he wants male child or female child. He cannot fix the exact date of the birth of his children. He cannot foresee that what kind of disease is going to attack his body, he is unable to understand that except few powers granted to him, all the power, command and rights are in the hands of our Lord. But people like you still choose to stay blind, deaf and dump.

[82:7] who created you, then perfected you, then brought you in due proportion?

Of course Allah did it

[82:8] He composed you in whichever form He willed.

Of course he made many of us blind, paralysed or brain dead too, but he made you and me a normal person. Was this our choice or our Lord's choice to create us as a normal human being??? Think about it!! Besides knowing that why can't we understand that we could have also been blind, deaf and dumb but we are still normal and beautiful??

[82:9] Never! (i.e. one should never be heedless towards him.) But you deny the Requital,

You shall have to accept the evidence about the judgment day, which Lord gave many times in Quran. Refer this verse for reference

([86:11] I swear by the sky that rains, [86:12] and the earth that cracks open (for plants), [86:13] this is a decisive word, [86:14] and it is not a joke.

The rain falls and makes a barren land lush green with plantations which were never there before the rain fell! On the day of the judgment, we will come out from our graves or from where rested in peace the same way as the plantations come out after rain. Lord wants us to understand the sign, but we are making joke of it. How sad!

[82:10] while (appointed) over you there are watchers,

[82:11] who are noble, writers (of the deeds),

Angels are part of the system which is delicately designed, to control the whole kingdom, by our Lord. Allah is watchful on each and every action. Angels are assigned duties to carry out Lord's commandments. They have different duties to perform. Every Testament and Divine Revelations had discussed them. You cannot make a joke of it!!

[82:12] who know whatever you do. [82:13] Surely the righteous will be in bliss, [82:14] and the sinners in Hell, [82:15] in which they will enter on the Day of Requital,and they will not (be able to) keep away from it. [82:17] And what may let you know what the Day of Requital is? [82:18] Again, what may let you know what the Day of Requital is? [82:19] A Day when no one will have power to do any thing for another! And command, on that Day, will belong to Allah (alone).

You mentioned:

(But Muhammad claims he can intercede: Volume 1, Book 7, Number 331:

Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:

The Prophet said, "I have been given five things which were not given to any one else before

4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection)…

So either Allah has forgotten He has given this right to His favourite Prophet, or the Hadith is not sahih (true) or Muhammad was being dishonest.

For clarification of your mind please read the following verse (translation)

[78:37] (from) the Lord of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, the All-Merciful. No one will have power to address Him, [78:38] on the Day when the Spirit and the angels will stand in rows. They will not speak, except the one who is permitted by the RaHmān (the All-Merciful Allah) and speaks aright. [78:39] That is the Day that is sure to come. So whoever so wishes may take refuge with his Lord. [78:40] We have warned you of an approaching torment (that will be inflicted) on a day when one will see what his hands have sent ahead, and the disbeliever will say, ―O would that I had turned into dust!!

Plato it is a lengthy reply. I may have missed some questions but you can ask me again and again and again.

Try to understand that I am not here to degrade anybody or call anybody's religion as Joke. But it is my request that please do not turn your face from the truth. The truth is that Allah is one and he is the only ruler of the Universe.

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