Mansoor: Check what you teach your children in your madrassas and schools to understand what is happening in Pakistan Part II

Submitted by Plato (India), Apr 1, 2009 at 07:42

Mansoor, you wrote:

>>For your many other questions of almost similar background here is my answer!

It is true we have to understand about our position. We cannot be important unless Allah makes us important. We are not the fraction of the part of this whole huge universe, but Allah has called us as Ashraf-ul-Makhlooqaat (The supreme creation). <<

You are admitting that our importance depends on Allah. We cannot also do anything that is against His will. Which effectively means that we are big zeroes in His scheme of things.

>>Besides knowing about this noble declaration what are we doing now, we are refusing to accept our position and calling names to our most Gracious and Merciful Creator????<<

With Allah's foreknowledge of everything, surely He knew this was going to happen, calling Him names I mean.

>>We would have been created as an ant or any animal living in jungle.<<

Those ants and animals living in jungles must be better off than humans, especially women, living under Islamic sharia in SWAT.

>>Shame on every one who is a big denier!!<<

And shame on every one who makes exaggerated claims for a phantom being called Allah.

>>As far as the advancement in latest technology regarding reproduction, just tell me, can human have become able to develop a fresh sperm by themselves without using any thing created by Allah??? Can you claim you can do that???<<

If you can prove that Allah exists (don't quote the Koran, which is claimed to be Allah's own words, because then you may as well believe that I am Allah because I can also write a book making such a claim) I will not make any such claim.

>>The scientist which you are proud on are using available miraculous creations of Lord to enhance their knowledge, they cannot create any thing by without using anything created by Allah.<<

Unless you can prove that Allah exists without dishonestly claiming that the Koran proves His existence you will have to let the scientists be proud of their achievements.

>>It is impossible please agree to it.<<

You are doing an Allah by this curious statement. Allah challenged man that he cannot bring out verses similar to the Koran and then immediately said it was impossible.

002.023 -25 YUSUFALI: And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true.
But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel ….

>>The empires of Islam which perished some centuries back did not have any grave problems of poverty and chaos which we now see around the world due to capitalistic economic system.<<

Really? Then why did they perish? How can any nation following sharia perish or regress? Allah knows best??

>>Don't call it world of misery. The misery around you is because of man made system which has disturbed the balance in society.<<

Man made systems have given us electricity, medicines, almost-famine free world. I know you will claim all this is Allah's doing and then immediately make the dishonest claim that diseases, disasters, and wars are not His responsibility but ours. Is it so difficult to see the utter silliness of this claim?

>>It is important to acknowledge that our Creator has created every thing around which is so beautiful and worth praising.<<

It is equally important to acknowledge that our Creator is also responsible for the evil and ugliness that we see around us.

113.1-3 SHAKIR: Say: I seek refuge in the Lord of the dawn, From the evil of what He has created, And from the evil of the utterly dark night when it comes,

006.123 YUSUFALI: Thus have We placed leaders in every town, its wicked men, to plot (and burrow) therein: but they only plot against their own souls, and they perceive it not.

>> It is for our own spiritual purity and strength that we repeat and recall what our Lord has granted to us. This makes us feel the love and passion for our beloved Creator. Try to feel it, it sparks spiritual enhancement inside you!!<<

Read the verses above and perhaps it may make you see the light about what the Lord has really granted us.

>>As for the Wealth of Prophet Muhammad you (Plato) yourself said

"What is the connection between Muhammad's wealth and Islam?? We do not have perfect knowledge of what he left behind.<<

If you also admit that we do not have perfect knowledge about the prophet's wealth why did you claim that he had nothing when he died. We know that all his wives were cared for (Ayesha even had enough resources to go to war). His daughter Fatima is known to have demanded from Abu Bakr a share in her father's property which he denied on the plea that he had heard the prophet say that prophets do not leave any legacy. Why would Fatima demand her rights if there was nothing to distribute? This made her and Ali bitter. You know the story, Mansoor.

>>You twisted the question asked by you and try to divert the issue to other matter. Kinana bin Rafi's torture was toooooo minimal of what the Muslims of Makkah were subjected before the great Migration.<<

I was asking why if the Prophet disdained wealth he tortured and killed Kinana bin Rafi, Safiya's husband? Was it to acquire this beautiful 17-year-old Jewess as the latest addition to his harem?

>> Kinana was murdered because he was not among those who laid their arms, he was captured and treatment of captured is different always from those who laid their arms. After all it was war not a birthday party!!<<

Does Islamic law require that those who do not lay down their arms and are captured should be tortured and then beheaded after demanding all his wealth? Why do Muslims scream so loudly about Guantanamo. That surely was a birthday party compared to what the Prophet did to his captive, Kinana, the husband of the girl who he made his wife the same day. Come on Mansoor, even you with your madrassa education can see what your prophet was up to.

>>Finally for your most hilarious Tafsir for which I am not sure that Allah would forgive you or not!! Let's see this Tafsir from my perspective!

With the name of Allah, the All-Merciful, the Very-Merciful.

[82:1] When the sky will be cleft asunder,

Quran used the word Sky many times along with Earth as "He created Skies and Earth" In this verse He has mentioned only one sky which can well be considered as the protective sky carrying ozone layer which has seven layers (please refer this verse too [78:12] And We have built seven strong (skies).

Also refer the following link to understand my point….<<

I think I did refer to the Koran's cosmology of seven skies before in one of my replies to you. If not let me repeat it. The Koran claims there are seven layers to the sky:

041.012 YUSUFALI: So He completed them as seven firmaments in two Days, and He assigned to each heaven its duty and command. And We adorned the lower heaven with lights, and (provided it) with guard. Such is the Decree of (Him) the Exalted in Might, Full of Knowledge.

The lower HEAVEN (note the singular) is adorned with lights, i.e. stars (note the plural)

071.016 YUSUFALI: "'And made the moon a light in their midst, and made the sun as a (Glorious) Lamp?

Meaning the moon is a light in the midst of the seven skies.

Is the moon above the stars, Mansoor??

[82:2] and when the stars will disperse, (It is scientific terminology still used very abundantly)

http://www.americanscientist.org/issues/feature/the-formation-of-star-clusters/5

Why do you keep sending me on wild goose chases on the internet. I studied the article on the link you have given and I could not find a word about the dispersal of stars. Can you come back and cut and past the line or lines you are referring to. I know you will not because this has been your record so far. You do not care to study what is in the article you claim substantiates your claim. Pleas stop wasting your readers and my time by this tactic.

>>[82:3] and when the seas will be burst forth, [82:4] and when the graves will be overturned, [82:5] then one will know what he sent ahead and what he left behind.

[82:6] O man! What has deceived you about your Gracious Lord!<<

What profound wisdom do these verses contain?

>>Indeed, Man after knowing every minor and major evidence of Allah's existence and powers, runs away from reality besides knowing that man himself has no power neither to born by himself, nor to live to the period of his choice.<<

Nor can Allah decide who will be born. The parents of humans can now choose when to have a child or whether never to have one. I can decide to shorten the life of a person's life or my own by making use of a gun or some such device.

>>He cannot decide either he wants male child or female child.<<

He can. He can abort children with the wrong sex to what he or she wants. Very soon science will be able to pick out sperms with or without the Y-chromosome and artificially impregnate women to have a male or a female child. So this little claim of Allah will soon be falsified.

>> He cannot fix the exact date of the birth of his children.<<

My dear Mansoor now I know why Pakistan is so backward. Even with the internet at your fingertips you make this claim. A woman can be impregnated on a particular date and the child made to be born on a pre-fixed day. Even now caesarian sections are carried out at the convenience of doctors and parents.

>> He cannot foresee that what kind of disease is going to attack his body, he is unable to understand that except few powers granted to him, all the power, command and rights are in the hands of our Lord. But people like you still choose to stay blind, deaf and dump.<<

I feel really sorry for you, Mansoor. With the genome having been mapped and soon everyone being able to have his own genome mapped many genetic diseases or likelihood of one catching some others can be revealed even before you are born. You may not be blind or deaf like me but you sure seem to be living in a dump.

>>[82:8] He composed you in whichever form He willed.

Of course he made many of us blind, paralysed or brain dead too, but he made you and me a normal person. Was this our choice or our Lord's choice to create us as a normal human being??? Think about it!! Besides knowing that why can't we understand that we could have also been blind, deaf and dumb but we are still normal and beautiful??<<

Have you ever bothered to ask why an Allah who claims to be all-merciful and all-powerful would want to give so much misery to people who are born maimed or handicapped? Give it some serious thought, Mansoor. And try to filter out the idiotic claims made by your madrassa teachers.

>>[82:9] Never! But you deny the Requital,

You shall have to accept the evidence about the judgment day, which Lord gave many times in Quran. Refer this verse for reference<<

([86:11] I swear by the sky that rains, [86:12] and the earth that cracks open (for plants), [86:13] this is a decisive word, [86:14] and it is not a joke.<<

Mansoor: 'I Plato do swear by the sea and the fishes and the whales that swallow the little fish that this is a decisive word and this is not a joke.'

Will you now accept me as the creator on my own evidence. If not why not?

>>The rain falls and makes a barren land lush green with plantations which were never there before the rain fell! <<

The rains also fail (especially in the land of the Prophet) and make the lush green plantations brown and dried up bringing famine and death.

>>On the day of the judgment, we will come out from our graves or from where rested in peace the same way as the plantations come out after rain.<<

Gives me the shivers. All those dead becoming the undead. You sound like you are telling us a horror story.

>>Lord wants us to understand the sign, but we are making joke of it. How sad!<<

I am making a joke of it because Allah does sound like a joker. He claims all powers and is unable to give us a demonstration except claiming third hand (via Gabriel and Muhammad) that all that happens in nature is His doing. Why is He so shy of showing Himself. He does not restrain Himself from shouting abuses at unbeliever via several intermediaries. Showing us all His glory should be a simple enough matter for Him.

>>[82:10] while (appointed) over you there are watchers,

[82:11] who are noble, writers (of the deeds),<<

I can see billions of clerical angels sitting row upon row with Allah as the chief clerk busily peering down at earth and scribbling down our every action. LOL

>>Angels are part of the system which is delicately designed, to control the whole kingdom, by our Lord. Allah is watchful on each and every action. Angels are assigned duties to carry out Lord's commandments. They have different duties to perform.<<

What you say just goes to prove, if proof were needed, that Allah is not as powerful and self-sufficient as He claims. You have just admitted that He needs helpers to watch over his creation. Allah claims to be every where every nano-second. He is closer to you than your jugular vein, remember?

Not only does Allah need millions of helpers in the form of angels but He needs millions of humans and jinns to sing his praises and massage His bloated ego by telling him, dishonestly, how great He is.

>>Every Testament and Divine Revelations had discussed them. You cannot make a joke of it!!<<

I make a joke of it because this Allah who claims to be all powerful has to depend on Testaments and Divine Revelations to make Himself known. If He shows Himself to me I will become His slave and hold my tongue.

>>[82:12] who know whatever you do. [82:13] Surely the righteous will be in bliss,<<

The bliss of cavorting with buxom women and having plenty to drink and eat.

>> [82:14] and the sinners in Hell, [82:15] in which they will enter on the Day of Requital,and they will not (be able to) keep away from it.<<

In hell angels will force gutter water down their throats and be made to eat a horrible tasting fruit and all the while molten brass will be poured over their head and their skin will be burned off and re-grown to the delight of those watching from heaven, including Allah.

>> [82:17] And what may let you know what the Day of Requital is? [82:18] Again, what may let you know what the Day of Requital is? [82:19] A Day when no one will have power to do any thing for another! And command, on that Day, will belong to Allah (alone).<<

Yes Allah is going to really enjoy this day of requital. Especially when He watches those souls being tortured in His hell.

>>You mentioned:

(But Muhammad claims …….

4. I have been given the right of intercession (on the Day of Resurrection)…

So either Allah has forgotten He has given this right to His favourite Prophet, or the Hadith is not sahih (true) or Muhammad was being dishonest.

For clarification of your mind please read the following verse (translation)

,,,,,,,,, [78:38] on the Day when the Spirit and the angels will stand in rows. They will not speak, except the one who is permitted by the RaHmān (the All-Merciful Allah) and speaks aright. ……

Mansoor what clarification do these verses give to my question? You come back with a verse that contradicts the one you had quoted at first. [82:19] A Day when no one will have power to do any thing for another! And command, on that Day, will belong to Allah (alone.

Does 78:38 abrogate 82:19? How confused and confusing is your Lord, Allah!

>>Plato it is a lengthy reply. I may have missed some questions but you can ask me again and again and again.<<

You have not answered the really interesting ones. For instance you have not given a proper explanation for these two intolerant verses except obliquely accepting that they are intolerant:

003.085 YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).

009.033 YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

You have not explained the male-female caste system invented by Allah, not dissimilar to the caste system of the Hindus.

002.228 YUSUFALI….. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise.

004.034 YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Nor have you explained why Allah condones slavery: I had said in my last post: Read the underlined parts carefully, Mansoor. DID YOU UNDERSTAND THAT ALLAH HAS HIMSELF CREATED SLAVERY??

>>Try to understand that I am not here to degrade anybody or call anybody's religion as Joke.<<

You do not treat anybody's religion as a joke because Islam considers other religions no just a joke but a heinous crime for which Allah will torture for ever in His Hell. Islam would have been a much pleasanter religion if it considers other religions a joke.

>>But it is my request that please do not turn your face from the truth. The truth is that Allah is one and he is the only ruler of the Universe.<<

The only truth your religion reveals is that Allah is a vengeful being bent on wreaking havoc on his creatures for the non-crime of not worshipping Him alone.

Regards

Plato

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