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More about the fatwa and the funny istinja'

Reader comment on item: Istinja' with the Torah and New Testament
in response to reader comment: to dhimmi no more

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Oct 2, 2010 at 08:43

Our dear Abdella writes from the land of al-kuffar in Germany

>i really appreciate that you take your time to translate all well and try to analyse this fatwa!

Any time as we need to learn about the enemy of our civilization and that is islam! You? you are only a victim

>you seem to be an arabic reader (egyptian may be) so probably we can speak about the translation (no body answered about this phrase the the autour changed after my first reaction)

alif shukr bas ana mish masri ana kafir ibn kafir

For the readers I wrote: Thank you but I'm not Egyptian and I'm an infidel the son of an infidel

>so for the a i find your translation very good and correct! and actually yes! it's very clear because it's not really allowed to clean up with bible (i dont know why this idea!)you just began to say some strange things in the A.1! yes torah zabouur and injil was sent to abraham david and issa (jesus) but if you follow the story in the quran you find that quran say that AFTER people changed some things or corrupt or whatever you want! (it's what we say in the islamic tradition, i'm not here to offenbse people but to have a dialog)

Not true and this is from your kutub al-turath al-islami we are told in al-Sira al-nabawiyya' by Ibn Hisham in his redaction of ibn Ishaq's sirat rasul allah that Muhammad asked some jews in Mecca to show him a copy of the Torah and he examined it and then declared that it is really the words of Allah and do you know what this means? It means that the Bible was not corrupted during the life of Muhammad

Now if we examine the Qur'an we find the following:

1. surat al 3mran 2

2. surat al-ma'ida 46

3. surat al-ma'ida 66

It is very clear from these 3 ayat that Torah and the Injiil (read this as the NT) are the words of Allah right our dear Abdella?

Now if we turn to surat al-a3raf 157 you will find blah...blah...blah... yajidunahu maktuban fi al-torah wa al-injill or you will find the name of Muhammad in the Bible which means that Allah is using the Bible as a reference to prove his point so why would he use a corrupted book for reference unless such book is not corrupted now do you get it?

So we have established so far that your Allah says that the Bible is his own words and he even uses both the Torah and the injiil as referencesto prove a point

>your a. 2 is more strangely interpreted! where do you see that in qoran it says that the bible cannot be changed!! it's wrote about qoran! and it's one of the clearest ideas of islam!

Sure your Allah the arab says in surat al-an3am 115 blah....blah....blah la mubadilla li kalimatihi

So let me help you your Allah says that the injiil and the torah are his words and he gives them as references and that no one can change his words

Do you know what this means? It means that the Bible (the Torah and the NT) cannot be corrupted and are not corrupted

So congratualtions our dear Abdella but it seems that your Allah is saying that the Bible is not corrupted

Now this is the A

>ok, the 3 and 4 and 5 dont work any more! but what i understand here is that it's not possible to clean with bible! because jesus is a sacred name, mary, david, god!! names that we find everywhere in the bible!

Sure if you believe that the Bible is corrupted but we have established in the A that the Bible is not corrupted as per your Allah so do you disagree with your Allah?

>in the B part, your are less pertinent in the interpretation! ( plz note that in recurrent that in a fatwa we find a text from other persons or from coran or hadith who have relation with the fatwa and confirm it, here (and it's very important) it's the text of a person who died 400 before)

Sorry but Im having diffiulty in understanding your English can you paraphrase it?

>the word that every body want to translate with respeced (MUHTARAM or MUHTARIM) has in this case the meaning (SACRED).

Well we need to talk about translation: The Iranians that wrote much of kutub al-turath al-Islami faced the problem of translation of the Qur'an and they came up with the great ideas about translations where we can translate

1. Tarjamat al-kilma/lafz

2. Tarjamat al-ma3na or tafseer wa tawdeeh al-jumla

And in the case of muhtaram the proper translation into English that would be a good reflection of tarjamat al-lafz/ma3na and tarjamat al-ma3na should be RESPECTED (see Wortabet dictionary page 319B) as the word sacred reaaly means muqaddas or muharram

>When you say respected you manipulate spirits here and you make them thing that only names of muhammad or allah is respected! but sacred has all the names! mohamma, jesus, david etc.

Hello: the word muhtaram means respected get over it

Wait: you cannot be an Arab right? Unless you flunked in your nahw wa qawa3id al-lugha ar 3arabiyya and why do you write Muhammad when his name in Arabic would be written as Mohamad?

after you add just a smal "and" who dont exist in the arabic version in this phrase( not respected like (books) of philosophy the Torah and the injiil (read this as the NT) science and made corrupted and made of it great name al-istija' is allowed with it. End") who confuse the meaning! all this elements are not 5 diffrent things ( philosophy + torah + injil + made corrupted + there is no great name on it) but it's " (philosophy + torah + injil), that we know corrupted and in the same time dont containg a great name! who change literally the meaning!

No it does not.

>allahu a3lam is a normal phrase! who is very positif! i dont know why you attack it! it more to describe our ignorance and not our stubbornness!

Allahu a3lam means we really do not know and only Allah knows but he Allah that is does not want to share this knowledge with us now do you get it?

>for my bonus of the day : uhm, why god sent jesus with a new religion if the religion before were already perfect?

What does this have to do with the fatwa and why would Allah send the likes of Muhammad? why was he not successful in his other attempts at sending those rusul? and why is Allah that shy and would not talk to you or to me? and why would he send an Arab who was an Arabian warlord and caravan raider anc child molester? any guesses?

>and dont forget that christianism as we know it was decided in the concil of nicea,

So?

>where an emperor (even not a religion person) decided that it will be like this and not like this! corrupted is to understand false some phrases! look at the jehova witness!!! did you read their bible?

And what does this have to do with the fatwa and what does this have to do with the fact that islamic theology is confused and confusing?

Submitting....

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Reader comments (47) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Whatever Happened to Dena Milany? [5 words]Geoffrey GomersallApr 10, 2015 17:12222801
2this story about torah istinja bible [49 words]AmaalMar 4, 2013 23:37204040
How Crazy Is This Nonsense? [30 words]AmboydukeApr 8, 2011 12:33184075
it's a book.... [33 words]fezApr 9, 2011 03:35184075
Alternative to screenshots for viewing old versions of websites [113 words]James ForsythDec 27, 2010 19:25181306
4bigotry [109 words]Peter HerzSep 28, 2010 05:33178768
4Ahamdinejad follows this [49 words]Peter HerzSep 26, 2010 15:14178714
13I have seen this practice myself [39 words]GarySep 22, 2010 10:57178570
4All's fair in love and war [147 words]Rebecca MouldsSep 22, 2010 09:27178569
3It started in the 7th century AD [158 words]Kepha HorSep 25, 2010 23:26178569
1praise [40 words]siegfriedNov 19, 2010 00:31178569
4Is It Not Plain Enough Yet? [153 words]M. ToveySep 21, 2010 19:03178538
How true [3 words]Kepha HorSep 26, 2010 00:04178538
3traduction big troubles [124 words]abdellah lasriSep 21, 2010 18:24178536
3no difference [144 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanSep 25, 2010 21:00178536
4Where are the Old and New Testaments corrupted [733 words]Kepha HorSep 26, 2010 00:02178536
translation big problems [179 words]abdellah lasriSep 27, 2010 10:20178536
corrupted [214 words]abdellah lasriSep 27, 2010 10:38178536
2What We Have Here is a Failure to Communicate. [403 words]M. ToveySep 27, 2010 12:29178536
1Again, no evidence [187 words]Kepha HorSep 28, 2010 05:28178536
10The Islamic tradition and al-khara' wa al-istinja' and other sordid matters [1111 words]dhimmi no moreSep 28, 2010 18:18178536
to dhimmi no more [546 words]abdellah lasriSep 29, 2010 03:06178536
2use Scotts - it's a lot softer [320 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanSep 29, 2010 03:28178536
3Islamic ... [152 words]dhimmi no moreSep 29, 2010 07:21178536
1There is No Corruption of Absolute Truth - Only Corruption in the Human Handling of It. [681 words]M. ToveySep 29, 2010 17:40178536
1the Greatly Disturbed [122 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanSep 30, 2010 05:36178536
Do Try Reading Several Bibles Side By Side [385 words]D.K.Milgrim-HeathSep 30, 2010 08:30178536
1Islam and fatwas and the absurd [153 words]dhimmi no moreOct 1, 2010 07:00178536
2More about the fatwa and the funny istinja' [1234 words]dhimmi no moreOct 2, 2010 08:43178536
1another excellent example of cofusion [148 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 2, 2010 22:15178536
2Abdella cannot be an Arab [147 words]dhimmi no moreOct 4, 2010 07:20178536
By the Way - Understanding The Holy Bible is Hard Without the Spirit [127 words]M. ToveyOct 4, 2010 19:46178536
1running & hiding [103 words]the Grand Infidel of KaffiristanOct 5, 2010 03:32178536
Furthering Understanding - Why Islam MUST Oppose the Holy Bible [362 words]M. ToveyOct 6, 2010 18:32178536
Yes, your comments are clear [877 words]Kepha HorOct 11, 2010 18:44178536
1I've taken your advice [156 words]Kepha HorOct 12, 2010 17:09178536
1corruption of islam [58 words]yehudaNov 4, 2010 11:16178536
I am back [154 words]Debanjan BanerjeeDec 1, 2010 21:15178536
But What Have you Learned From Reading the HOLY BIBLE [201 words]M. ToveyDec 5, 2010 20:41178536
My learning of HOLY BIBLE is given below [251 words]Debanjan BanerjeeDec 6, 2010 20:55178536
3Our dear Deb is worried about our native people but does he worry about his own Hindu ancestors? [108 words]dhimmi no moreDec 8, 2010 07:53178536
Dig Deeper in the Hebrew Holy Bible for Its Truth in Your Life [733 words]M. ToveyDec 8, 2010 19:12178536
The True Message of the Torah and the New Testament - Love of Almighty God [724 words]M. ToveyDec 15, 2010 11:04178536
1The exception or the rule? [51 words]Alain Jean-MairetSep 21, 2010 14:40178524
5Arabic word: "istinja' " [66 words]Charlie GriffithSep 21, 2010 12:59178515
4islam [41 words]seraphimeSep 21, 2010 10:26178509
11muslims have been brainwashed to hate the Bible, Torah, Christians, Jews, Israel, non muslims. [87 words]Phil GreendSep 21, 2010 04:31178499

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