comments on comments

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Dec 22, 2010 at 05:02

Michel writes:

"I read your post, finding myself nodding quite often. Greetings to down under indeed (the Boeing AU HQ is in Bribane... absolutely love it there.. might you tell me, where you are based?)"

Hi - I'll tell you - and therefore all other readers - I'm based in Sydney

"...To your post. First of all, tx for disproving my point, made in another post, how rarely civility is still alive ( a classic doctrine of fairness and politeness in the anglo-saxon world, which sadly nowadays is no longer the norm in neither England nor America - something I consider as one of the attributes of western values under siege from literally both fringes of any (political) debate.."

I wasn't expecting or really deserving any compliments. I guess my general attitude might come down to a conscious recognition that whatever I do or say - I'm ultimately doing it to myself. Well , no need to add the word 'ultimately' - I AM doing it to myself. That's why tolerance, fairness, etc are so healthy. We're doing everything to ourselves. we all know the cliches - karma, whatever you do comes right back to you etc. Well - they're true. I can be seemingly incredibly rude when I need to be - but generally that is done to make a point.

"...While you are one of the possibly harshest critics here in all terms Islam,..."

I hope that's not true - I hope there are people who understand its perniciousness better than I

"...you let your facts and arguments speak, instead of your emotions. And you thus penetrate and achieve the goal of being persuasive and convincing."

I don't quite see how you can put forth views on these subjects that aren't based in facts. Sure, religion and philosophy and metaphysics can seem quite numinous subjects - but 'God' - is quite practical. Systems that have been created that harm or hinder human life (and here I mean not just physical life but the free expression of a person's unique individuality ) are repressive and have no place in our world. And inaction is not an option.

".....Feeling not personally attacked, I am engaged and intrigued to respond. In some ways, you make my point, as debating in this manner might even propel a muslim to discuss with you and thus might enable you to understand his perspective, if not outright empathize."

There is no point in my pretending to compromise with Islamic beliefs. It is a crock. And the parts which are not - have been pilfered from other religions and philosophies and repackaged. Of course I can understand where muslims are coming from - ignorance of a greater truth. I don't feel sorry for them If we're lucky - we've had the seeming misfortune of having all our illusions shattered at one stage. I'm not going to feel sorry if an individual muslim has his/her bubble burst. Not out of a lack of compassion - just that BS doesn't cut it for me - at all. On a larger scale , western societies have had their illusions shattered for a long time. Now it's Islam's turn

"....To talk just for the sake of talking, either to get some form of personal satisfaction from hearing or seeing yourself speak, or from letting off steam or tearing someone else down and thus feel better yourself, is in my book a waste of time. In this manner one will not achieve anything of note (other than some individual self-satisfaction), as on the one hand, only the people who need no convincing, as they already share your (extreme) views, will applaude you, and on the other, the people you slander, patronize or attack, will either respond in kind or be driven off. It's a bloody waste of time."

yes - that's true - as tiring ultimately for the deliverer as for the listener

" and then formulate a benefit oriented busness proposition in response to those needs. After all, I want my client to appreciate and buy into, what I have to offer (goods or ideas) and then act in a specific way accordingly. ......Especially, when negiotiating with members of an utterly different culture or business environment (language, habits, decorum, ettiquette, even body language) I found it enormously helpful to do what we in business call "due diligence" (an effort geared to understanding my client in all aspects mentioned above) prior to any engagement."

Very tactical and that might work for business - but we're dealing with the irrational here - absurd beliefs and passion, boiling lead, houris, flying donkeys, infidels, talking stones, 'evil' jews, child molesters posing as 'prophets' , faces that smile in agreement but the minds behind secretly believe that only they are right etc Totally different kettle of fish.

".....With regard to Iran I intended to help raising alertness, as I believe, that this regime may well create by sheer irrationality and the logic of crisis mechanism the incendiary device for WWIII or at least the next global crash, if it remains unchecked. This is not some form of a far distant future Mad Max scenario, but may actually happen very soon. (see my piece " why we can not allow Iran to get a Nuke")"

I can agree on that - so many negative trends converging - there will be some event or series of events that will act as a catharsis - and what a catharsis it will be. But the idea of nuclear engagement - while sounding nice and surgical on paper - is utterly terrible in reality with repercussions on so many levels. Again , inaction - or sitting back and doing nothing or saying 'it's all alah's will' - ' is no option - so whatever can be done must be done to allay the situation.

"..... Believing that the Turks as a people at least do not deserve to be bundled in with the radicals of the likes of Iran et al, I wanted to "negotiate" here in this forum a more differentiated approach and help prevent them from further being driven towards the fundamentalist block. ( All this on a very insignificant scale of course.)"

with regard to Mr Havas - it was interesting to note he pointed out a url that outlined what he believes in. The site was a sufi site. So in that respect - as a sort of 'gnostic muslim' (and a heretic in the eyes of many) - he's way ahead of the masses of blind Islamists.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".