1,4 billion Chinese political refugees in the US

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Aug 11, 2012 at 15:10

Doug wrote :

>I have to admit your ability to write long responses, with very little quantification is paramount.<

I will try to give you as short responses as possible this time not to strain excessively your attention.

> I actually enjoy a discussing with people on different points, and I prefer that they disagree as long as they can back up their argument. Just because something is stated doesn't make it true, there has to be a quantification against existing evidence based on facts understood under context of the history of that time, not just an iconic explanation of the ideal.<

By the way, where in your replies do you think you have included "quantifications against existing evidence based on facts understood under context of the facts , not just an iconic explanation of the ideal"? I can see none.

> Using a recursive argument does not justify your avowal, just because in one point I admit a true statement presented by you, it does not mean that your conclusion is correct since it denies the reality of the reason for its success.<

In other word , when a communist says a true thing it doesn't make it necessarily true as long as a capitalist dislikes it.

> Amazing how can you stand there and say that they lived better under murderer Mao, that is just denying basic history. If he was loved so much, why was his wife put under house arrest after his demise until her death ? <

Are we talking about Mao's wife, cousins,uncles, grandparents or Mao himself?The Chinese have never and will never remove Mao's remains from the mausoleum in Peking and will never engage in self-defeating flagellation comedy called de-Maoization as the Russians naively did with de-Stalinization. It is always dangerous to surrender on any point to the enemy bent on your destruction as the enemy's intention is not to correct and improve anything but make you commit more mistakes and aggravate your plight as it became clear when the USSR that fell victim to the US deceptive strategy of attacking Russia's past to make the future safe for US hegemony and Russian territory safe for plundering by greedy corporations.

> I may not be living under the best government in the world, but it's still better than anything China can bring to the table.<

If China were not subsidizing your country's economy, you would be living like people in Bolivia. It would be interesting to see how your capitalist worldview would be affected if you were deprived of your present privileged living standards.

> To quote Winston Churchill "Democracy is the worst form of government I know, but I've found nothing better". Yes I still believe I'm leaving in a democracy, and everyone should be thankful for the opportunity given to them to become what they wish.<

Churchill is not a very trustworthy authority on anything,least of all on the ideal state. Nor are you. You seem to believe that a country without the middle class -like America today which is rapidly losing its middle class to the 1% and less super-rich plutocracy - can be a democracy. That's as interesting as someone without legs believing he can still be a good runner as in the old good days.

> You keep going back to the 400 individuals, 140 countries, etc. Provide quantifiable proof, not some conspiracy theory. Just because you say it doesn't make it true.<

I doubt you are interested in any formal proof. But anyway let's do the work that will be lost on you. A recent study by scientists at the Zurich university "The network of global control" (Stefania Vitali, James B. Glattfelder , Stefano Battiston) shows using mathematical models the relationships between 43,000 transnational corporations and identifies a relatively small nucleus of corporations, mainly banks, with disproportionate power over the global economy." The authors write : .

" We present the first investigation of the architecture of the international ownership network, along with the computation of the control held by each global player. We find that transnational corporations form a giant bow-tie structure and that a large portion of control flows to a small tightly-knit core of financial institutions. This core can be seen as an economic "super-entity" ….We find that, despite its small size, the core holds collectively a large fraction of the total network control. In detail, nearly 4=10 of the control over the economic value of TNCs (transnational corporations I) in the world is held, via a complicated web of ownership relations, by a group of 147 TNCs in the core, which has almost full control over itself. The top holders within the core can thus be thought of as an economic "super-entity" in the global network of corporations. A relevant additional fact at this point is that 3=4 of the core are financial intermediaries. Fig. 2 D shows a small subset of well-known financial players and their links, providing an idea of the level of entanglement of the entire core." (p.1,6)

The top kings of the American "democracy" include :

1 BARCLAYS PLC GB

2 CAPITAL GROUP COMPANIES INC, THE US

3 FMR CORP US 6713 IN 8.94

4 AXA FR 6712 SCC 11.21

5 STATE STREET CORPORATION US

6 JPMORGAN CHASE & CO. US

7 LEGAL & GENERAL GROUP PLC GB

8 VANGUARD GROUP, INC., THE US

9 UBS AG

10 MERRILL LYNCH & CO., INC.

11 WELLINGTON MANAGEMENT CO. L.L.P.

12 DEUTSCHE BANK AG

13 FRANKLIN RESOURCES, INC.

14 CREDIT SUISSE GROUP

15 WALTON ENTERPRISES

16 BANK OF NEW YORK MELLON CORP.

17 NATIXIS

18 GOLDMAN SACHS GROUP, INC.,

19 T. ROWE PRICE GROUP, INC.

20 LEGG MASON, INC.

21 MORGAN STANLEY

22 MITSUBISHI UFJ FINANCIAL

> Let me tell you what I know about the communist system... I lived under that oppressive, regressive, social terrorist, slave master, bourgeois state. I can speak on the subject matter from firsthand experience, unlike many who have only seen it through the pages of a book. Which is what you sound like, since you cannot use one historical reference to quantify your statements.<

One question just for the sake of brevity, are also on the CIA payroll ? They need guys like you and one can have quite high living standards by telling what they want people to hear on communism. Compare e.g. my ignominious countryman Zbigniew Brzezinski who is a lapdog of the Rockefellers. Whose lap dog are you ?

> You didn't explain why my rule of judging a country by its immigration pattern is wrong, your argument makes no sense.<

You don't understand that a country that can't reproduce it own poluation is a failed and doomed country, do you? It's so hard to comprehend , isn't it?

> It sounds like you're not aware that the majority of Chinese immigration is illegal. The US ruling class has nothing to do with their wish to leave their homeland, but it has everything to do with them wishing to leave the slave system in their country.<

And the proof of that beside in Doug the anti-communist's big mouth is where ? Anyway, if it's illegal and so bad over there, then make them all asylum seekers in the US ! What the US human rights organizations and democracy need so badly amd want is 1,4 billion asylum seekers from "the salve system" in China.

> The worldwide crisis DID NOT start in the banking system, they just took advantage of the existing trading practices to exploit it. The worldwide crisis started in the halls of governments, from the US, to Europe, to China, to Asia. All these governments wished to sustain social equality via different programs, and it became a house of cards that fell upon itself. In the US it was the underwriting of bad loans by Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. Europe was the un-sustainability of the Socialist programs of many of the member countries. China was on due to their greed, and growth at all cost. Know your facts.<

I can see no facts here. Before 2008 all the big banks were all hectically involved in wild speculation, the housing bubble and various financial pyramids and when these inevitably collapsed, the government (.i.e. the public) had to bail the biggest banks out, which is to say the worst dens of vipers and thieves had to be saved from its own venom and wrong-doings by its targeted victim -the US tax-payer.

The other task the financial crisis has accomplished is that big banks got a chance to either devour or get rid of the competition of smaller banks. The statistics is staggering . In 2008 25 banks failed, 140 failed in 2009, 157 in 2010 and 92 in 2011 and as of 2012 39 banks have failed. Well, somebody's ruin is somebody else's fortune.

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