going on

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Jun 27, 2012 at 01:14

GIK: Actually my point was - NOT whether it was right or wrong - or any shade in between - just that it made sense.<<

Evil also makes perfect sense. Why prefer good to evil if both make sense?
You're bringing value judgements into it now. I could as well have said "2 + 2 = 4 and 3 + 3 = 6. You're asking "Why choose 2 + 2?"

>> GIK: >Do we want superpowers acting irrationally?<

GIK "At the risk of stating the obvious - to the thug, his thinking makes perfect sense otherwise he would not act in the way he does.< <

Ianus: "How about the logic of a victim of the rational thug? Whose logic is preferable?Ever thought about that or you imagine that in this world thugs do without victims?"

In fact I was going to mention the viewpoint of the victim - but thought that was too obvious a point to make.Seeing we were talking about the rationality of a superpower and not their real or imagined victims - the focus was on the supposed 'thug'.

GIK> It's not 'whose is the biggest?' - my point was that other countries also vying for economic and political dominance have strategists with goals as bad or worse than any the USA might have.<

Ianus: "So by comparison the US with its pro-jihadist exploits and consistent record of support for Islam against kafirs is not so naughty by comparison. Is it what you want to say?"

You make that statement - but do not mention at all the US anti-Jihad exploits - which so many muslims complain about. I simply said what was said - basically that other countries have plans as bad, if not worse than the US does.

"...The largest economy is coming to an end.It is shrinking and losing momentum."

It won't come to an end. It may change in size in comparison with the Chinese economy which pretty much survives on what we would call slave labour. The situation in China will not last forever. Already the signs of the costs of \environmental degradation are showing up - as well as signs of discontent among the lowest economic classes who want a better deal.

"If no war happens within 4-5 years US economy won't be the largest economy any longer and this is at the core of the nightmare that is haunting US strategists and politicians.You can't see this fairly obvious circumstance , can you?"

If I say I can , you'll be disappointed - and if I say I can't you'll be happy?
Why don't you concede it's possible that observation of facts is not a problem for me?
As should have been clear by now - I have no vested interest in the USA yet in order to bolster your position it seems convenient for you to picture me as a card carrying member of their Republican Party. Quite ridiculous.

"Comparing now the percentage of GDP it turns out that the US spends more than China and Russia ."

Yes, either Russia OR China - but not Russia AND China.

It was in 2011 as follows - the US -4,7% of its GDP; China 2,7% , Russia 3,9%. But it is interesting to see what other top spenders are there around the US - Eritrea 20.9%, Saudi Arabia 11.4% , the UAE 7.3%, Iraq 5.4%, Oman 9.7% , Israel 6.3%, Jordan 6.1% , Kuwait 4.4% . Excepting Israel this is a very fine company of good old Moslem friends, clients and allies of America's ruling elite. America must feel like at home among them!"

And of course defence industries in France, Germany, the US, Russia, China, India and even little countries like the Czech Republic are doing a' roaring trade. Maybe even Poland?

GIK> Having said that - defence expenditure is not necessarily always a bad thing as there are many spinoffs in terms of technology flow downs and inputs to the domestic economies. Plus the obvious one - defence!<

Ianus "Leaving technology which can thrive also in a more peaceful environment , maybe you haven't noticed it yet,"

True - things can and do develop in peacetime but unfortunately, necessity is the mother of invention - and when your life is on the line - you invent like hell. Look at the technological advances made by the UK, US and Germany in WW2 in material science, electronics, aviation & of course the nuclear industry (whatever you say about it - it was further developed after WW2)

"What do such giants as the US want to defend themselves against ? What are they interests in Central Asia? Are they needed there to guard the poppy fields of Afghanistan and oil refineries of Baku ?"
Ask them, I'm not an American. I keep having to stress that point.

"And frankly, do you wage war with terrorists, whom you have incidentally created and armed yourself, with submarines, intercontinental missiles, rocket shields in Central Europe and a million-men armies of occupation ?"
The ICBM's and subs etc, as far as I know , were not developed to tackle terrorists.
But as you are again referring to the USA, and I am not an American - you should refer your questions to them.

GIK: >Well, being brutally honest - and taking all humanity and value judgements away - he was correct. Stating the obvious does not make me Rudolph Hesse.<

Ianus: " I expected a different answer."

Life is so full of surprises.

"But now I have to ask this question - Are you sure you are not a nihilist ?
"

I'll check......
"Nihilism is the philosophical doctrine suggesting the negation of one or more putatively meaningful aspects of life. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived.
Nihilism can also take epistemological, metaphysical, or ontological forms, meaning respectively that,
in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that contrary to popular belief, some commonly perceived aspects of reality do not exist."

That very last phrase I can certainly go with but in terms of that general definition, no, I'm not a nihilist.
In fact, I know that each moment is full of meaning if one is awake enough to the moment.

"....The term nihilism is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived pointlessness of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws."
People who go through this stage eventually crawl out into a wider understanding.
Nihilists seem to overlook the most fundamental thing - their own ability to be conscious.

"Suicide is too serious a problem to make jokes about it.When self-preservation instinct is broken and life is made such a nightmare that it is no longer worth living for , then the system in which it happens is dysfunctional and self-destructive just as when children are not born in this system! I believe people don't choose death but are made to do so.

Ok, agreed. My comment was a little flippant.

>And as to "certain followers of a certain religion who boast about loving death more than life",
they have been chosen by today's masters of the new world order in the making to change this earth into hell and reduce the numbers of its inhabitants by billions. Who else can do it better -
with more zeal and more good conscience than America's Islamic death squads of Kosovo Albanians, Turkish jihadists or Saudi wahhabis ?

Actually as much as you'd like to think that the USA has chosen those actors to an ill-defined task - they have freely (as freely as an unconscious person can be) chosen themselves.Read their handbook.

With modern technologies at the disposal of the masters of this world few slaves -if any- are needed -mostly sex slaves,a few domestic slaves and some for exercising sadistic sports.
With modern technologies there are not many jobs slaves can sensefully perform.
Besides, you would have to feed and clothe those 7 bln slaves.This drains resources you need , narrows your Lebensraum and is dangerous. If they find a Spartacus , then the masters may swap places with their slaves and this is what masters definitely don't want to. "

But surely you don't think these 'masters' will be cooperating all the time.
If you were one of these masters(motivated by phantasms) wouldn't you want to be bolstering your own position all the time? After all - you've proved you care less' about anybody else. So you would need a servile populace to increase your power. It's all about energy , power and control.

Ianus: "......So exterminating one sixth of mankind with Islam, war, chaos,crime, disease,degeneration,
suicide or madness is the only option these "friends of humanity" are left with.
And a glance at the world without confirms they have set to work in earnest to achieve their Satanic goal."

Why do you think they would stop at 1/6th?.

Ianus : >Well, you can fight Islamophobia e.g. as people whose credibility and reliability you have tried to restore in my eyes.

GIK: >??? I'd rather see the spread of Islamonausea. Islamists themselves help a lot in this regard.<

Ianus: Why "???" ?

I call it Islamonausea - and why would I fight it?

"You told me such a good story about America that I almost forgot the medieval churches and monasteries in Europe which America helped desecrate, destroy and change into mosques or latrines."
Actually, I haven't told you any stories about America - but again, I understand you have to create that impression in order to take the stance you do. It is entirely uneccessary. I am not here to defend America or Russia or China, the UK or Germany, the EU or anybody else.
I do understand that America has taken actions that are not in its long term interests. But who hasn't?
Have you, Ianus , an individual, ever consciously made decisions or taken actions that were not in your own long term interests? If so - then if an individual is incapable of making consistently correct choices - why on earth do you expect a nation of 300 million to do any better?

"...Which means the US military is as brainwashed, cowardly and despicable as its Islamophile commanders."

I suppose when it gets down to the level of the GI - it could go something like this - "you can kill these bastards if they're attacking you - but tow the pc line and don't say anything about their religion otherwise you lose your job. So think about it : Lose your job and you lose your house, lose your house, your wife and kids leave. Your wife and kids leave, you will be faced with a crisis and then this false identity you have built up about yourself will cease to exist - then think of the horror associated with discovering your real identity."

" I just wonder what next mission of the US Army on behalf of Islam and jihad will be? No guesses?"

You'd have to establish that the US Army was actually taking orders from Islam - was actually happening first - rather than just your particular perception brought about by your biases.

"The Crimea for Tatars?"

The Crimea for Ukrainians was a nice start but it will end there - I seriously don't think Crimea for Tatars would go very far to becoming a reality.

Free Chechnia?

Doubt it. ""We will follow the terrorists wherever they go. If they are at the airport, we will be there.
Excuse me, but if they are in the toilets, we will go in there and blow them away. That's all there is to it; the problem is solved."

"...Islamisation of Chinese Turkestan?"
Isn't Turkestan Islamic already? And if you mean the Far Western state of China - historically it has been pretty much muslim. Prior to that certain areas of western China were actually peopled by non-Chinese . Much as Tibet is Tibetan a distinct ethic group and culture. The bulk of the dominant Han Chinese lived in the coastal regions and the northeast.

"And how about your optimistic view of America? "

No different from my optimistic view of Russia - or Poland for that matter.

Ianus "....What is it based on unless your youthful enthusiasm for a cause which in the meantime has turned to be its very opposite ?"

What cause would that be? I'd like to know.

".....or reject the belief in your US idols "

GIK >Tsk, tsk....there you go with your straw man tactic again. Building up a situation which does not exist - then attacking it.<

Ianus "Strawman tactic? You tried to persuade me that it's fine and good to have the US as the leading power.They are defending our values and traditions. When I protested , you called it a strawman tactic. Very ingenious!"

Not ingenious at all. Your initial statement , the one you base so much of your suppositions on, is incorrect. Americans are not my idols. Ist das klar?

GIK > When in doubt - follow the money. That's why most of those fat spineless bastards do what they do. And perhaps a few of them do so out of pure malice.<

"It is not only money. Clinton was generously financed by China and yet the US which takes Chinese money follows no pro-Chinese policy."

More fool the Chinese in backing such a showman. So at least you can say the US have an independent foreign policy - good for them then.

"With Islam it is a different story. Money can explain a bit but not all. There is a deeper source and basis of mutual love and cooperation between wahhabism and "the virus of democratic pluralism and human rights" spread by the US.The US supports Islam as the most destructive, disruptive and bloody force in this world because it exactly does the job which the US wants to be done in this world - chaos and destruction to remain the only superpower on the ruins of today's world which is rapidly changing to America's disadvantage. This provokes fear and when to survive someone acts out of fear he has no considerations for humanism, civilization or pity."

Fear from whom ? The Islamists? They have no consideration for humanism, civilization or pity ab initio.

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