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The Coming Collapse of Islam?

Reader comment on item: When Sunni and Shiite Extremists Make War

Submitted by Ron Thompson (United States), Jun 6, 2013 at 20:57

While I agree with Dr Pipes in his debate with Bret Stephens, I'm still waiting to see someone explore the ultimate possibility that could result from the insanely mindless violence metastasizing in Muslim countries from Libya to Pakistan, from Nigeria to Somalia to Afghanistan, and continuing to threaten huge areas outside that profoundly dysfunctional world.

Here we are only 22 years from the Collapse of the Soviet Union, an event spectacularly unforeseen by either the 'experts' or intelligent amateur students, and no one is wondering and pondering whether another event of similar world-changing magnitude may be impending in the world of Islam. And therefore whether we should be doing all we can to hasten it, first of all by simply TALKING about the possibility.

Consider the following. That the three Middle Eastern countries with the most educated and energetic sectors of population are clearly the most disenchanted with theological rule, if not explicitly - so far - with Islam. (One wonders, would that disenchantment be explicit if we had been talking about it for the past, now lost, decade?)

Who doubts that if a fair election were held in Iran, the clerical autocracy would be thrown out.

In Egypt we may marvel (at least, I have) that there is such tenacious secular opposition to the Muslim Brotherhood and the more fanatical Salafis, even if they are hugely outnumbered by the endlessly propagandized populace.

And now we are seeing a very similar development in Turkey, every bit as unexpected as the events in 1989 East Germany, 2009 Iran, and post-2011 Egypt.

For over 11 years now, since 9/11, the United States, the entire West, and even Israel, have avoided asking themselves the question, which visitors from another planet might have thought obvious, is Islam itself the source of the scourge, not only of Muslim terrorism occurring in their countries, but the of the pointless, nihilistic violence afflicting Muslim populations in a dozen or more countries.

How long can the non-Muslim world expect or deserve the grim and bloody benefit of Islamic civilization trying to destroy itself, and therefore a somewhat lessened danger of having that violence inflicted on it, without having the intellectual and moral courage to name the common enemy of hundreds of millions who would live in relative peace with their neighbors – including no doubt the submerged aspirations of countless non-violent (and therefore bad) Muslims?

Last week I attended a talk by three scholars of Islam, including two Muslims, hosted at the library of congress. One of the scholars, who was not contradicted by the others, three times referred to something remarkable said by Mohammed near the end of his life. It seems he predicted that the Caliphate, which his followers expected to succeed him and lead the Muslim world after he was gone, would last about 30 years, and then be succeeded by a "cruel tyranny".

What does it say that the Founder of the religion accurately predicted the subsequent 1400 year history of his creation (except that the "cruel tyranny" commenced during his lifetime rather than 30 yrs after his death), and yet there are still all those, including the last and current Presidents of the United States, who pin their hopes and place their bets on something called 'moderate' Islam, and will not tolerate discussing, describing, planning for, working to hasten, the gigantic fact that may be staring all of us in the face?

If one believes in an afterlife, perhaps they can imagine Mohammed somewhere laughing: I wanted to create something to frighten the world. And I'm still succeeding 1400 years later, even as my malignant creation is busy trying to tear itself apart in my name from within!

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Reader comments (42) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Placing military objects among civilians [38 words]Henk TwerdaAug 16, 2013 19:37209023
Protect the Christains [69 words]RickJun 26, 2013 16:46207341
1MIDDLE EAST UPRISINGS [196 words]Anna BJun 18, 2013 13:19207077
2The Shite Sunni Wars [36 words]TomJun 17, 2013 01:33207045
Combatants and civilians [140 words]Peter WestJun 12, 2013 04:10206923
Entirely agree with you Daniel! [48 words]Mark RccaJun 8, 2013 13:07206835
Who are Muslims? [122 words]Bart BenschopJun 8, 2013 08:18206826
18The Coming Collapse of Islam? [615 words]Ron ThompsonJun 6, 2013 20:57206789
4Islam by itself is already non-existent [234 words]PrashantJun 7, 2013 01:27206789
1Islamic Reformation overdue [105 words]Tim FairlessJun 15, 2013 18:26206789
Spirituality in Islam [105 words]bicckyJun 16, 2013 08:21206789
3An Islamic Martin Luther? Not likely [729 words]Ron ThompsonJun 19, 2013 18:31206789
2On the relationship of Spirituality, Suicide, and Absence of Conscience in Islam [491 words]Ron ThompsonJun 20, 2013 11:18206789
Islam is beyond a reformation [81 words]peter heathDec 22, 2013 08:37206789
Islamism spreads hatred and violence [195 words]Murthy SMay 23, 2014 01:04206789
2Religion in its present form has ceased to be of any relevance [270 words]Sujay Rao MandavilliDec 20, 2014 11:12206789
role of religion [32 words]Sujay Rao MandavilliApr 13, 2015 07:39206789
a religion of peace... but not peaceful [444 words]jlMar 23, 2016 13:24206789
That's why it just might Collapse [467 words]Ron ThompsonMar 24, 2016 20:08206789
Iranian Nukes [89 words]JPJun 6, 2013 12:12206773
Nature abhors a vacume [94 words]Abe IrwinJun 6, 2013 12:08206772
NATO border [81 words]mythJun 6, 2013 05:06206756
1ISLAM WILL ALWAYS BE HARD TO UNDERSTAND [154 words]JACQUES HADIDAJun 5, 2013 21:01206738
integration of Muslims into western society's concept of government, [45 words]rodney allsworthJun 5, 2013 18:26206729
Islamists in Syria [91 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AnonJun 5, 2013 18:10206727
1Lebanon [93 words]rickJun 5, 2013 17:32206726
The last paragraph [12 words]Eddie HisterJun 5, 2013 17:10206725
1I agree with your position. [54 words]Perla FoxJun 5, 2013 16:16206723
10Big Picture is Not Two-Dimensional Mr.Stephens [113 words]Michael Hanni MorcosJun 5, 2013 14:39206719
2When Sunni and Shiite Extremists make War. [71 words]AnneJun 5, 2013 14:08206718
Sunni VS Shiite [20 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Steven LJun 5, 2013 13:17206717
Taking the lead [112 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
David W. LincolnJun 5, 2013 11:55206712
Sunni-Shiite War [157 words]Paul JefferyJun 5, 2013 11:24206709
Assad vs. Jihad [318 words]Anton BargielskiJun 5, 2013 10:12206706
How to help civilians [44 words]Stuart roseJun 6, 2013 16:42206706
4Who are the Civilians? [310 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Mike RamirezJun 5, 2013 09:19206704
2Shite Hezbollah, Assad & Iran vs. the Arab Sunni World [256 words]TomJun 8, 2013 02:26206704
Indonesia [20 words]Mark CauseyDec 28, 2013 16:27206704
3Be aware of the wrong decisions [109 words]Stergios BakasJun 5, 2013 09:15206703
2The Infidel is a Legitimate Target [98 words]KerryJun 5, 2013 07:41206701
Agree with Daniel Pipes [154 words]FX MeaneyJun 5, 2013 07:28206700
1Let them kill each other off [80 words]Ken BesigJun 5, 2013 06:58206699

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