More ignorant nothingness...

Submitted by Amin Riaz (United Kingdom), Dec 3, 2011 at 05:11

"I think my facts and figures do not need an expert to conclude that Arabic is a weak language."

This says it all. That there is NO expert backing you up... and you by your own admission are not an expert. So making my conclusion...correct - that you views are baseless, ignorant and rather pathetic.

.... you still fail to answer why and how is Arabic a weak language.

Rather you aim the gun at current situation of Arabia. Which dire though it is, no argument there - is getting better. More political change bids well.

The level of Literacy is due to to corruption and political situation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_Middle_East_and_North_Africa#Literacy_rates

Using a completely separate argument to conclude a different argument is illogical:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy

Else you would be able to find clear cut examples of why Arabic is weak language... work of grammarians, historians, linguists, social commentators, journalists and etc. Yet you have been unable to do that.

It has been more of the same.

"no one wants to read Arabic literature, not even Arabs"

More of your prejudices. Without a single shred of evidence. Yet virtually all major Western universities study it.

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You make again many personal attacks of me, and then you get upset when I return the favour. However I will summarise what I said and the sources I use.

One such personal attack? Give me an example.... And where did I get upset? I encourage you to keep to insults.

My original comment was that Arabic is a backward language that has not developed at the rate that other languages has due to the lack of demand placed upon it by the speakers of Arabic. The reason I surmise this is that lack of education amongst Arabic speakers, the lack of scientific progress of Arabic peoples, and the dumbing down of the Arabic speaking peoples and the predominant reason is Islam.

There we have it.... Arabic and the state of Arab world are 2 different things. Your argument is illogical and hence ignorant. It is based on your prejudices and hatred.

You respond with personal attacks, and cite how wonderful and sophisticated Arabic literature is, how sophisticated it is and how well educated the Arabic world is.

A blatant falsehood - where did I say how educated the Arab world is and find me 1 example of personal insult against you. Arabic is a highly sophisticated language. According to most linguists that have studied the language.

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Now again you show you are trying to deflect my argument not refute. I did not make up the figure of 20 books it was from the article I used as a source material. If you had read the article you would of seen this not of my making. This article provides specific figures, the way to refute this is for you to provide alternative figures from someone you claim is a more reputable source. You are reverting to the flint knapping again. You ask my source when you are questioning my source? Now do I really need to explain the source I quote is my source?

Again no reasoning - simply drivel and babbling BS. If your number 20 is from the above then prove it by doing math and showing exactly how.

Now you firstly ask where is my source, I provided my source, you have not provide any source to prove me or my source wrong, therefore by extension you are the one with a baseless argument, not me, I have provided my sources, where is yours?

Let me get this clear .... you present one book buyers/seller - that actually goes against you. And claim to reject Arabic by it.

Where exactly did that source show - that Arabic is weak unsophisticated language?

I have not found you SOURCES - care to repeat. Else you are OUTRIGHT lying.

Well to be honest, he is not a poet of great world importance, maybe to Pakistanis he is great, but his work does not seem to have been reprinted nor translated into many languages and Pakistanis are fairly illiterate. I think he didn't get a Nobel Prize because he was not good enough, innovative enough or creative enough, does that answer your question?

Again you do not even know of this poet you you have an opinion .... purely out of ignorance. "does not seem to"... no that does not answer my question as it is based your prejudices. Again baseless.

I am primarily concerned with the sciences. The Nobel Peace prize and the Arts award are very Political, how else can you explain Arafat getting one? Yet out of the 1000s awarded for the sciences why so few Arabic speakers are even considered? It is because there is no significant contribution.

Again - you fail to notice and make the distinction that Arabic and state of Arabia are 2 totally different propositions.

Again you fail to back up your ignorant view with any work of Academia/scholarship/expertview/stat and etc.

No evidence.

Well Amin, you keep asking for my sources, but then you make claims without quoting yours? Do you know there is a word for that it is called hypocrisy.

Onus is on the person making claims to back them up.... it is your view that Arabic is a weak language... so where is the evidence from linguist, historians, expert is Arabic Arabs or Middle East?

Else they are your baseless view....

If you need a source for anything I have said ask for it. Exactly what do you need ... If i don't give it... then you have a point.

Else making general accusation ..... that is meaningless.

Please name the Arab classic you claim all of Europe has read and your source?

Few examples:

Numerous works of Ibn Rush - he was monumental figure to commentate on Aristotle and spread his Philosophy - to West and Judaism.

• Leaman, Olivier (1998), Averroes and his philosophy, Routledge, ISBN 0-7007-0675-5
• Baffioni, Carmela (2004), Averroes and the Aristotelian Heritage, Guida Editori, ISBN 88-7188-862-6

Ibn Sina:

Canon of Medicine

Wiki provides extensive list of references:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avicenna#References

Ibn Khaldun

Muqqadimah - Again Bernard Lewis is a good authority.

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"Firstly, you act like a pompous xxx and correct my "cite", was that a OBVIOLY error? Hypocrite! You call my English patchy??? So you are a do as I say type of person not do as I do?"

Self explanatory - need I say more?

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LOL, so you agree there are lots of sources, many not very credible, saying that 20% of the Qu'ran does not make sense even when read in Arabic. Now I ask you, where are the sources that are credible showing they are wrong? Where is your proof that 100% of the Quran is a marvel?

Obviously .... and even you know answering Islam. But not many Academic hold that view. Which actually goes in the favour of Quran.

Sibway - Al Kitab, Ibn Hisham - Mughni, Ibn Qahir Jurjani, Ibn Hajib, Suyuti, Abu Hanifa .... and etc.

Also Western Wanborough, Schimmel, A Lockett, W Fischer, i gave you a better list previously.

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I think I have shown that you are an Arabist snob, who has acted all pompous towards me, a person who does not claim expertise in Arabic. Yet I have proven that Arabic is the language of the illiterate, the uneducated and the uncultured. How can you explain why Spain has translated more books into Spanish each year, than into Arabic for the last 1000 years. Why do the French, with a significant population of Muslims and Arabic speakers translate so few books each year into French(estimated to be 20 books)?

Yet you claimed the most ignorant and pathetic .

Even now word like "I think"

Where have you proven that Arabic is weak - by which authority? Name me one? Just by repeating a false claim over and over does not make it so.

Take Dr Pipes and Robert Spencer ... neither has EVER written along the lines of Arabic being weak.

So who has ...? Else it is simply your prejudice.

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The reason why is that due to these demands, English can do the most in conveying ideas and concepts. The vast bulk of all scientific papers and journals have been written in the last 25 years. The sum total of human knowledge that is really a result of Arabic speakers is very very small. Most scientific papers are written in English, virtually none in Arabic for the very reason I state in that Arabic has not had demands placed upon it.

Again conjecture .... and unrelated.... to your ignorant view that Arabic is a weak language. Second - you failed to answer why is it that English borrows virtually all scientific terms from Latin or Greek. Where as Arabic tends to use its own history and lexicons.

The question you fail to qualify is so called weakness of Arabic. This sure doesn't answer it.

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Every language compare badly to English when it comes to second language - yet Arabic is the only one that compares - given that Muslims from all over the world learn it.

Its writing script too is behind English too. English being the one used most often. Arabic next.

It is used as script is comparable to English as well. Languages such as Urdu, Punjabi, Persian, Balochi and etc use it.

So what are you going to say ... every other language beside English is weak?

Take India - where I come from - it is after China - will be the next economic, technological power. It will overtake USA in economic within 50 yrs. One reason India and USA have become increasingly closer... perhaps.

Yet look at its literacy rate - they are WORSE than most Arabs countries.

So how many evidences do you need commenting that Arabic even written is Art.

{Even though I am a designer of English Typography.... }

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Why are there so few world class Muslim/Arabic Universities? Why are so few scientific papers/journals written by Arabic speakers, why is illiteracy so high amongst Muslims/Arabic speakers?

Because default civilization currently is Western. Someday it wont be... I answered you this. Once Arabs had their Empire. Then it was the default Civ.... what goes around comes around.

China - used to be superpower once ..... hunderds of years ago. It is going ot be again.

Second - look at the Middle Eastern countries - most of them according to the wiki link YOU posted - rated pretty well....

70-89% range. That is not bad. Given how bad the situation was just 20yrs ago.

Second - number of World Class universities (the whole university - came from the Arabs - and including many of EVEN current practices - degrees, professorships and etc.) is increasing.... I gave you example of King Saud university before.. as an example.

Take UAE:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_universities_and_colleges_in_the_United_Arab_Emirates

It has brilliant institutes .... up and coming. Got plenty of money ....

Again all this has not got much to do with Arabic as a language.

You asked me .... about scientific words in Arabic - I gave you all of them - yet you got no answer for it.

http://www.sciencedev.net/Docs/science%20in%20arab%20countries.pdf

Again - Science and technology is on the rise. But what has THAT got to do with Arabic as a language.

Because according to you Arabic as a weak language cannot convey complex idea - yet you also claim not to know much about Arabia at all.

Other than few web searches.

Arab world OVIOUSLY lags behind the West in S&T - that is no even the argument - yet you are spending most time in that.

This simply doers not make Arabic a weak language at all. How else has it been coping with Science - yet it was Arabic that greatly influenced in converting an exporting knowledge to the West.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influence_of_Arabic_on_other_languages

Maybe you missed the role of Social Media in Arab spring. A very current technological advancement.

http://menablog.worldbank.org/social-media-and-arab-spring-where-did-they-learn

You virtually laughed at me when I say the standards when it comes to Arabic are not that high, and you claim the best Muslim University is the King Saud University.

It is rated by Western ratings that - King Saud is the best Arab university. And where did I laugh at you at that? Quote me. I agree standards are not high. But they are increasingly getting better.

I will not use the various ratings by Westerners, I cite the Chinese study. The Western rating are not as flattering.

Hang on - so why it that you are not using Western Ratings - they are the ones that rate King Saud as the best Uni from Arab countries.

As I said, the bar is set VERY LOW, what is your source to refute me? Well Amin? Or are you going to say my claims are baseless using your baseless argument, argument?

Your claim that Arabic is a weak language remains AS BASELESS as ever. You are running away time and time again from answering the question.... you go off on a tangent. Status of Arab world and Arabic as a language are 2 different arguments.

To try and be fair, the Chinese do not rate you King Saud University too highly if this is the best, I rest my case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Saud_University

But - the situation is a lot better and will get better. Even within 15yrs there is marked improvement. Now with better govt - standard surely will rise. Few more bad eggs to get rid of.

Yet this still does not answer question of Arabic? How is it a weak language. Evidence point to the contrary.

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Now I have proved that the Arabic of today is virtually the same Arabic of 1000 years ago, that this lack of sophistication is why there are virtually no scientific Arabic works for centuries, no one wants to read Arabic literature, not even Arabs. Compared to the rest of the world, Arabic speaking peoples do not value education, science or even reading.

Again you have not proved that - you have simply gone round the house how far behind Arab world is. And that is not the argument. Because I agree there. It obviously is.

But again you are misinformed and remain ignorant:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic

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I have provided facts to back up all my claims, you however have provided a lot of hot air.

The whole argument was weakness of Arabic - yet you have not PROVIDED ONE shred of evidence.

Either back it up - with work of academics/scholars and etc. You have not brought up one name. Some of your own evidence goes against you.

Such as Literacy levels in Arab countries...

And try not to go off topic.

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Wikipedia, The UN, nationbuilder and the CIA world fact book are all reasonable sources of information, what are yours Amin?

When have you used UN as source? Second look at the question you were answering. Not one "source" points to answering how is Arabic a weak language.

Not one linguists name - yet I have given you have few choice names .....

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