Islam and its victims

Submitted by dhimmi no more (United States), Dec 3, 2011 at 07:03

BB King wrote

>Let me start by saying I am a big fan of yours. I have closely watched your debates with many people on this site and I love the way you give a good verbal thrashing to your opponents with your wit, sense of humor, and profound knowledge of history, the arabic language, theology etc.

Thank you very much and I try to do the best I can to defeat the ... ideology of our times and that is islam and I make it very clear that the first victims of islam are not us kuffar but Muslims themselves

>Reading you debate is better to me personally than watching Christopher Hitchens Hitchslap his opponents.

I love Chris Hitchens and there is no doubt that his style and the way he thinks and presents his facts is very great and I wish I can be like him

>Having said that you often end with a statement encouraging people to "leave Islam and free yourself once again." But is this really the rational approach?

I happen to believe that we have to remind Muslims that they are not stuck in Islam and that they can really leave it

>Is it not better if we follow Mahmoud Mohammed Taha Ibn Warraq or An-Nai'm's advice and encourage Muslims to secularize

Sorry al-3ilmaniyya or secularism and islam do not mix as there is no secularism in islam

>their society and liberalize their religion

It cannot be done after all and I'm paraphrasing what Patricia Crone once said that orthodoxy in religion always wins which means that for example history teaches us that in the case of let us say Egypt the Muslim Brotherhood will form the next government and they are described at present as middle and moderate but give them one or two years in power and you might have another Iran or even worse Wahhabi like system

>so that it embraces secularism, feminism, and a liberal democracy?

There is no secularism or feminism or liberal democracy in islam you either have islam or not and it is all or none. and may be this is the biggest fault line in islam

>It doesn't seem realistic to me that Muslims will abandon their religion.

Well I study history of the Middle East and i did learn long time ago that religions in the Middle East rise, expand and then followers of such human ideas aka religions start to fight with the other followers of the same religion and then with the others or kuffar or non believers and then this religion is gone and good riddance but humanity will have a new one. So I do see islam also gone too.

And if communism (which is another religion) can fall over night or if the God Serapis of Alexandria can fall over night (391CE) then the same can happen to islam

>It is better if we ask them to relegate Islam to a personal faith and not a political doctrine.

It does not work as islam claims to be deen wa dawla or religion and the state and it is either you have islam or not as there is no happy medium

>We will help them in this process.

Sorry it is not going to work

>What are your thoughts on this?

I wish you are right about you what are suggesting and that it really can be done, that's all I can say

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".