Good news from Saudi Arabia : In 500 years witches will no longer be hunted and executed there !

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 5, 2012 at 10:42

Ronald Paul Ng

> Life is certainly interesting. At the start of this new year, I find myself engaged in debating on this site and in the Economist on very similar positions, that it is the absolute belief in dogmas that lead to terrible things being done by human beings to other human beings.<

Let me remark that I am not sure what you mean by "dogma" in the first place and ,second, that one can be as dogmatic defending dogmas as when opposes them vehemently.

If absolute belief in dogmas leads to "terrible things being done by human beings to other human beings", then jainism ( the religion of absolute non-violence) should be one of the most terrible genocidal forces in this world as it has so many absolute dogmas you must adhere to that I don't know how it could escape your rigorous definition ?

> In the Economist, I am debating against a few moslems who probably think I am anti-muslim, and, here, I think some think I am defending moslems. Interesting. <

Maybe we might blame your too flexible views for that quid pro quo?

>First, let me state categorically, i don't think and I have never accused the Chinese of being evil. <

No? So why did you give the example of the Cultural Revolution when the subject matter was the burning of L'Institut d'Egypte and wider acts of Moslem violence and vandalism against culture and books as being on a par with never ending cultural genocide perpetrated by Moslems ?

>(Incidentally, I am ethnic Chinese).<

I have the impression you're not from continental China.

> Neither do I think moslems are evil, I have many good moslem friends...(By the way, I am a baptised and confirmed Christian in the Anglican Church) <

I always ask at least two things those kafirs who tell me about their "Moslem friends". First, what do they know about Islam and methods of jiahd as practiced for the last 1432 years and, second, if they have asked their Moslem "friends" pushing straight in their face the Quran which says (5.51) "O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people." and (5.80) "You will see many of them befriending those who disbelieve; certainly evil is that which their souls have sent before for them, that Allah became displeased with them and in chastisement shall they abide." ?

You can't be a true Moslem (and which Moslem say he isn't a true Moslem?) and be a sincere friend of a kafir.

> I think it is the rigid adherence to certain doctrines that at times, can make good men do evil things. That's all.<

Your "all" is by far not enough at all as I can quote to you a hundred or so doctrines which have no such record of destruction, genocide and regress as Islam does. Jainism is a fine example that immediately has come to my mind. It's a very rigid and dogmatic teaching and yet I can imagine a more peaceful one. In other words , it is not dogma and doctrine as such that produces the effects you are referring to.It must be something else that makes one dogma a nightmare for all those who don't accept it and another which seems to be an idyll on earth.

> This applies to the Christians some 500 years ago, which if you think of the long history of civilization, isn't that long ago.<

500 years "isn't that long ago"? Then how old is our civilization ? If you notice that our civilization began some 4000-5000 years ago, then some 10% of our historical time is quite a long time span , especially given the obvious fact that history accelerates its paces as it approaches modernity, i.e. the era of the great geographical discoveries, the Reformation, the Renaissance and the Enlightenment , all of which Islam hasn't made any contribution to.

>Incidentally, the last witch executed in Europe was a Barbara Zdunk in Prussia in 1811.<

I advise you to better investigate your examples before bringing them up. Barbara Zdunk could not be executed as a "witch" because magic was no criminal offence in Prussia -if I am not mistaken - since the 17th century. She was convicted of arson after a great fire that reduced the town of Rößel to ashes.

In the meantime last December ,i.d. hardly a month ago, in Saudi Arabia "Amina bint Abdul Halim bin Salem Nasser was beheaded ... in the northern province of Jawf" ..." for practising "witchcraft and sorcery", the country's interior ministry says. But you don't care, do you? From what you said bellow it follows that you firmly believe that in 500 years no witches will be hunted and executed in Saudi Arabia as Enlightenment will prevail there.So why bother about what is going on there at present ?

> Yes, I agree that the "Age of Enlightenment" hasn't reached the Islamic world, (in the Economist site, I said exactly the same thing), <

Now it's up to you to tell me why it hasn't reached the Islamic world which all Moslems and even some gullible kafirs find so fine and superior ?

> but one Jewish friend, yes Jewish friend of mine once said this to me. Christianity started some 500 years before Islam, 500 years ago, it was going through that terrible period of religious wars and burning of witches and so on; as Islam started 500 years after Christianity, it is going through the same now. Well, that's one way of looking at things.<

Whoever said this , my friend , is trying to either make fools of us or is dishonest or lives in a dream world. How does he know that Enlightenment and Rationalism that started in Europe under very unusual and specific circumstances will also start in Islam in 500 years? Has he found it out through the ancient Chinese bone and tortoise shell divination or what ? Has Allah or Voltaire told him? There is not a single force in Islam acting on behalf of Enlightenment and so many acting against it and yet I am to believe a miracle will take place and what is impossible will be the case ?

Can't you see how dogmatic the belief that "it is going through the same now" is? What if it is going the same way and yet will have no happy end as in Europe? What if in 500 years nothing of the wishful thinking we are being fed with now comes true and more witches will be beheaded and not in Saudi Arabia but in Moslem-run states like the United Americam Emirates or the Islamic republic of France or the North German Beylik ?

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".