"He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 8, 2012 at 10:10

BB King wrote :

Ianus wrote:

> Ianus, it seems you suffer from convenient amnesia. To refresh your memory you were an apologist for the USSR and Stalin, even going as far as to absolve both of their crimes in the invasion of Poland alongside Hitler and the Katyn Massacre. Take a look for yourself:

http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/191347 <

Speaking of amnesia , refreshing memory and the above link , I asked you a few questions there which you presumably forgot, so may I ask you now not to expose yourself to your own charges but boldly to reply to them? And their context to refresh it was as follows :

>BB King - Second don't forget who liberated your country by helping defeat the Nazis. It was not solely the USSR but the U.S. <

Ianus - The total German casualties on the Eastern front, up to Dec 31, 1944 were 2,742,909. During the same period of time Germany suffered 339,957 casualties on the western front, i.e. c. 15 %. ( R. Overmans , The German military losses in WWII) . Now how much of these losses can you logically ascribe exclusively to the US army , subtracting those inflicted by the British Empire , De Gaul's French etc ? 10% ? 5% ? Are you really serious about making me believe that 15-10% comes close to 85%?

I wouldn't like to be rude towards you but what you say is very arrogant and unfair, not to call it stealing someone else's victory and distorting clear historical record.<

As regards "absolving" I wrote :

" The Russians have recognized the crime and did their best to disclose it. Isn't it enough for you? Those who did it are no longer alive, so whom will you blame and for how long still ? A century? A millenium? And frankly, compared to the deadly ordeals the tsarist officer corps had been through with its almost total extermination after 1917 , the Polish military losses in Katyn look like a minor tragedy.

What is so painful and embarrassing about it is, though, that it all was publicized by the Nazis with a very specific objective in mind and looking at how it is being used now it appears to me that the objective is the same as in April 1943, even though the forces behind it are no longer operating from Berlin."

Now sorry that I am not going to play faithfully the game according to the rules defined by Dr. Joseph Goebbels and continued in his spirit by his zealous imitators in the West and here in Poland.Unlike you I feel that only those with an absolutely clean historical record have a right to throw stones at others and unlike you I find both my country and your country not to possess such a clean historical record and so they both have no moral right to shout out Dr. Goebbels' slogans and pretend not be connected to his agenda. As Jesus put it : "He who is without sin among you, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

> So I am sure you can absolve the USSR of this tiny transgression as well. Everyone now knows you absolved them of other horrendous crimes.<

I wish that all were as sincere as the Russians in disclosing their misconduct and crimes. I do hint at what I wrote at the end of my comment you quoted as evidencing my "amnesia". In plain text - when you as an American soldier beat up in public a Polish taxi driver who suffers as a result brain concussion and when the police drives you not to a prison where you belong but back to your ship and impunity , then blaming the Soviets for crimes committed 70 years ago looks mildly speaking very suspect, not to use a harsher word.

Feel free to announce that the opposite is the case because we Poles are known to passively accept any amount of beating, humiliation ,abuse and exploitation from our new masters and occupiers as long as we are told to concentrate our attention on the Katyn massacre and hating the Russians .

<<"I take back the possessive pronoun "your" but still I think that by your defensive action on behalf of Islam you have more to do with it than you realize. I am afraid though that Moslems will "reward" your spirited defense of it one day just as the Saudis rewarded the Soviet atheists for championing ibn Saud's kingdom internationally.">>

"In particular, the Muslim Tatar community of Poland has been recognised for producing Polish nationalist heroes since its arrival in the 14th century. Just in November, a monument to Poland's Tatar population was unveiled by President Bronislaw Komorowski. "Tatars shed their blood in all national independence uprisings," Mr Komorowski said. "Their blood seeped into the foundations of the reborn Polish Republic.""

http://ispu.org/GetArticles/48/1989/Publications.aspx

It seems like your government is rewarding Muslims, Ianus. Oh, Oh. <

It is for the first time I can hear that any government has also something relevant to say about history!

Anyway, I didn't vote for this government or the president who was publicly ridiculed for his ignorance of our language and history nor do I know anybody who supports or respects them. So whatever they do has nothing to do with what people think but with the hidden and unholy agenda this oligarchic regime is carrying out and perhaps even you will agree that a government's agenda and objective history rarely overlap.

I understand that for our new occupiers, the Brussels Empire builders and the International Monetary Fund it is the ideal government that uses -as instructed - destructive and unrepresentative minorities to dominate and control the majority that hates it and its policy of Poland's political and economic serfdom and demographic demise.

And as to "rewarding" Tatars and real history, some serious historical estimates say that during the raids of the Tatar hordes between the 14-th-17th c. in our south-eastern provinces c. 1 000 000 Poles had been taken prisoners and were over their brigands' nest in the Crimea sold on the slave markets of the Ottoman Empire. Their fate and suffering were horrible. Now what can you think of a government that instead of erecting monuments to a million Poles who suffered and perished from the hands of the Tatar slave-hunters erects monuments to Tatars? Whose government is it ? Ours?

Anyway, how many Tatar "national heroes" fought in the Polish army at the gates of Vienna in 1683 or during our earlier Polish-Turkish wars?

<"I wouldn't refer therefore to the webpage as "the source" because strictly speaking there are no sources there worth the name (i.e. original evidence, documents etc.), but a few arbitrarily collected books from which arbitrary quotes were made to prove a definite preconceived and politically correct point of view and which can't hold against Aristotle's law of non-contradiction.">

> If you feel that way then you should have no problem refuting every sentence uttered in the site I gave you. Yet you didn't even refute one sentence.<

It's hard to refute anything while confronted with a person that seem to be resistant to admit a wide range of rational arguments. Still I had no intention to refute "every sentence uttered in the site" because I believe in other sections the site may well contain quite reasonable sentences. But what you referred to looked so contrary to logic that I had to express my protest.

By the way, I said something on one sentence that seemed to me to be particularly absurd : " Muslim intellectuals adapted knowledge to the needs of Islam, but for the most part they were free to explore wide horizons and made inventions and discoveries unimagined in Christendom."

Islam leaves no freedom to anyone "to explore wide horizons". Wherever you come upon something which is not in agreement with Islam's absurdities you're reminded of what you really are - a brainless slave , a prisoner of the giant Islamic prison. But this is no refutation according to your "criteria", is it?

<<"It's a violent dogma spread and imposed by terror and kept alive by deceitful lies and propaganda">>

What "missionary activities" are of any relevance in a religion whose basic tenet is "Whoever abandons Islam, kill him !" ? In Islam "missionary activities" mean also terror that hides behind the scene. Just convert to Islam and then tell those who persuaded you to convert to Islam that you leave Islam and you will see how closely related "missionary activities" and terror are.

<<"Does your "source" - which looks like pasted verbatim from a CAIR or another Islamic website - address the issue? Of course,it doesn't as , ironically enough, Islamic sites don't either. So maybe your Islamizing atheists are waiting for the Moslems to invent a good lie to paste it unto their own site and to add it to the explanation that explains nothing">>

> This tells me you did not thoroughly browse the site. If you had you would've noticed that the site links to Faith Freedom, a site run by Ali Sina who is a Muslim apostate and fierce critic of Islam. Furthermore, here is an article on the same site criticizing Islam http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam1.html

And here: http://www.jesusneverexisted.com/islam2.html

I tell you that I had no intention to assert something about the site as a whole which I admit I don't know but only about the contents you referred to and I read.

And on a general note , when dealing with any extensive text you're unlikely to subscribe to everything it says. There is always something less and more certain, something open to debate and I doubt the authors of the site have ever pretended to be right in absoluetly everything. They can't be as dogmatic as Moslems, can they?

...

> Oh and thank you for citing (F. Gregrovius, History of the city of Athens in the Middle Ages, Dresden 1927 , p.556 ) something I have no immediate access to. Care to link us your proof?

It is here . In this 1889 edition the page is 396-397. In case you don't believe I translated it correctly,I encourage you to consult any other person who can read German.

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