69 million page views

What comes AFTER the Muslims is far more horrible.

Reader comment on item: Another Voice Predicting Islamism's Doom
in response to reader comment: Islam is irksome?

Submitted by Michael S (United States), Jul 22, 2016 at 20:51

Hi, Lynn.

You probably know that I love civil discussions of the Bible. For the viewing audience, Let's post what the Bible says about the "Pale Horse":

Rev.5
[11] And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
[12] Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing...

Rev.6
[1] And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
[2] And I saw, and behold a white horse... and he went forth conquering, and to conquer...

[4] And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth...

[5] And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse...
[6] And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

[7] And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
[8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Just to confirm that the pale horse called "Death" is among us, or in the starting gate, let me recap the times of the other "horses"

1. The white, conquering horse: He operated during a period of world conquest; and the greatest period of conquest in the history of the world was the Colonial period that ended with World War II.

2. The red horse, that took peace from the earth, probably describes the Cold War, when the "Reds", or Communists, went about fomenting revolutions from China to Cuba to Mozambique; and when the world began to be concerned about a planet-destroying, nuclear war.

3. The black horse came after that, after the demise of the Soviet Union and the unofficial "end" of the Cold War. The nature of this horse and his rider has been to create tremendous inequality in the world, with the rich getting continually richer and the poor getting poorer. I believe we are still in the "black horse" era.

You are suggesting that the "pale" horse (the Greek word is "xloros", which literally means "green") represents Islam; though the Bible itself say is represents "death" and "the grave". If we are moving into a new era, which we seem to be, what seems to be in store for us is "killing" in general: killing by the sword, by death (perhaps this means "disease", such as HIV/AIDS and Ebola) and by literally "terrifying beasts" -- which includes the likes of crocodiles, poisonous snakes and the like.

With situations happening in Africa and the Middle East today, we may already be entering into this period -- and note that the Muslims are not directly implicated by the scriptures; though they certainly have been playing their part. Before I speculate, however, I want to peek ahead at what the coming "fifth seal" is about, the one that is opened after the "horsemen" have done their work:

Rev.6:
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled...

What do you say about that? It talks about the killing of men for their "testimonies", and for the word of God. That word "testimony", in the Greek of the Bible, is "marturian", akin to the Christian word "martyr" (not the Islamic "shahid", which speaks of something very different). The translation of the noun form of the word is "witness", as in "the two witnesses" of Revelation.

I'll let you sort out for yourself, who you think those two "witnesses" are; but the "fifth seal" passage seems to indicate it is the martyrs who are going around preaching and otherwise standing for the Word of God. That sounds an awful lot to me like both the Christians and the Jews; and their enemies are not just the Muslims. Their greatest enemies, in fact, are the atheistic powers such as those that rule the European Union, those who are continually helping the Muslims attack Israel.

I'm getting ahead of myself here, of course, talking about the FIFTH seal instead of the fourth. Yes, I think that pale or green horse is somehow connected with the Muslims; and they seem to be no strangers to the art of propagating death. Still, they are a mere "irritant", when compared to what will come after them: the persecution of Israel AND the church (as in "two" witnesses) by the atheist Western Powers. That is why I called the Muslims a mere "irritant".

Dislike
Submitting....

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".

Submit a comment on this item

Reader comments (63) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
2Islamism is Islam [97 words]Edward L. MayMay 15, 2021 14:11267013
2Very accurate comment [144 words]A very concerned readerMay 16, 2021 22:54267013
Escaping the Pall of Doom; Where Does One Go, Whom Does One Follow [403 words]M ToveyJul 26, 2016 11:18230894
Erdogan could be "Gog". Don't know about Putin [262 words]Michael SJul 29, 2016 07:29230894
1McCarthyite attack against Trump over Russia. [276 words]Michael S.Jul 31, 2016 12:11230894
Prophesying Doom - Specifying Israel's Part is the Point - It's All For Reaching Them [219 words]M ToveyAug 2, 2016 19:25230894
Gog, not God [17 words]Michael SAug 3, 2016 06:09230894
Whoa; Not So Fast [161 words]JerryJul 21, 2016 16:13230589
Muhammed has to step down [310 words]Michael SJul 29, 2016 06:45230589
Agree [165 words]JerryAug 1, 2016 18:37230589
Bernie Santars. Make my day. [605 words]Michael SAug 3, 2016 06:05230589
Russia -- not the Soviet Union [539 words]Michael SAug 7, 2016 04:50230589
Another voice predicting Islamism's demise-reply [137 words]John JonesJul 19, 2016 03:37230507
It Was Never Intended That Islam (and Islamism) Would Last Forever [482 words]M ToveyJul 13, 2016 11:32230415
The ism is the norm, to spread Islam. [54 words]LynnJul 12, 2016 09:43230372
Islam is irksome; but the West has already conquered the whole world [513 words]Michael SJul 20, 2016 11:08230372
Islam is irksome? [24 words]LynnJul 21, 2016 15:12230372
What comes AFTER the Muslims is far more horrible. [970 words]Michael SJul 22, 2016 20:51230372
Are you talking about the two that will witness in Jerusalem? [431 words]LynnJul 25, 2016 08:30230372
The Two Witnesses explained (?) [1649 words]Michael SJul 27, 2016 12:33230372
Fulfillment of prophecies. [756 words]Michael SJul 27, 2016 18:04230372
Zerubbabel, and Davidic descent [468 words]Michael SJul 30, 2016 05:42230372
How do you explain? [56 words]LynnAug 5, 2016 11:06230372
No Davidic line for Mary [195 words]Michael SAug 6, 2016 22:09230372
Well if you are wrong it will be revealed as promised. [24 words]LynnAug 10, 2016 12:47230372
Elizabeth was a Levite [65 words]Michael SAug 15, 2016 02:41230372
Witnesses [48 words]JonOct 28, 2016 14:47230372
Zerubbabel and the Two Witnesses [857 words]Michael SOct 31, 2016 23:54230372
2 witnesses [167 words]JonNov 4, 2016 22:47230372
The Davidic vs. Levitical orders [1031 words]Michael SNov 6, 2016 00:26230372
Reply [34 words]JonNov 8, 2016 13:39230372
I appreciate your comments. [151 words]Michael SNov 10, 2016 01:17230372
Two Witnesses Video Study [21 words]ParadoxApr 19, 2017 09:44230372
God's two witnesses: in the church, and among the Jews, the living out of the word of God in us [1294 words]Michael SApr 22, 2017 12:47230372
1A question asking your opinion [94 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
AlexandrosJul 5, 2016 06:01230281
The Brexit monkeywrench and the Globalist machine [187 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Michael SJun 27, 2016 21:15230200
The state of the States -- and the rest of the world. [748 words]Michael SJul 7, 2016 13:17230200
Islam: A real civilizational threat [127 words]BillJun 24, 2016 17:11230144
4Any report of the impending death of Islamism is greatly exagerated [415 words]Rich McJun 24, 2016 15:25230142
On the endurance of Islamic ideology. [164 words]CheapSpeechJul 1, 2016 04:04230142
Islamism: A Primitive Idea From The Distant Past [186 words]DaveJun 24, 2016 09:06230138
Demise of Islamism? [415 words]Max HocuttJun 24, 2016 08:59230137
Nationalism [212 words]SAKOVKTJun 24, 2016 08:53230136
1The overthrow of the Great Progressive Empire [794 words]Michael SJul 30, 2016 22:29230136
1The "Ism" that will not go away [92 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Mike RamirezJun 24, 2016 08:29230134
Doing away with evil systems [329 words]Michael SJun 26, 2016 06:26230134
3Shi'a Sunni split v Islamism [372 words]dhimmi no moreJun 26, 2016 08:07230134
1Islamism Stems from a Medieval Belief System [343 words]Mike RamirezJun 26, 2016 08:42230134
In the near future, we may long for the benign days of Islamism [426 words]Michael SJun 24, 2016 05:04230131
True Islam Does not Strive for a Benign Version of Itself; It Does Not Have Enough Patience [241 words]M ToveyJul 7, 2016 15:37230131
I agree. [678 words]Michael S.Jul 9, 2016 19:31230131
Turkey's PM Erdogan is apparently cozying up to Assad, Hizbullah and Iran [116 words]Michael SJul 12, 2016 03:58230131
Why Mystery Babylon Baffles - Its Underlying Base of Deceit [168 words]M ToveyJul 12, 2016 13:05230131
The coming Messianic Kingdom [371 words]Michael SJul 15, 2016 11:17230131
As Presumed-Turkey is Still a Component of Middle East Conventions-Especially After the Coup Attempt [124 words]M ToveyJul 18, 2016 11:25230131
Judaism Set to Be Redeemed; Cleansed; It is the Basis of Its Future [175 words]M ToveyJul 18, 2016 11:36230131
Ezekiel 10 [731 words]Michael SJul 21, 2016 02:48230131
In the Middle East, all things are possible [622 words]Michael S.Jul 21, 2016 04:30230131
All Things Possilbe by Human Perception Do Not Follow the Fulfillment of the Eternal's Plan [99 words]M ToveyJul 22, 2016 13:48230131
Ezekiel 10 Speaks of What was Lost - And What Should be Looked For When It Returns [152 words]M ToveyJul 22, 2016 18:20230131
Judgment Day is coming for all [508 words]Michael SJul 24, 2016 04:50230131
There are many differences about what people think the Bible means. [387 words]Michael SJul 25, 2016 04:37230131
Judgment Day IS Approaching - But not All Will Experience It the Same Way [397 words]M ToveyJul 25, 2016 13:52230131

Follow Daniel Pipes

Facebook   Twitter   RSS   Join Mailing List

All materials by Daniel Pipes on this site: © 1968-2024 Daniel Pipes. daniel.pipes@gmail.com and @DanielPipes

Support Daniel Pipes' work with a tax-deductible donation to the Middle East Forum.Daniel J. Pipes

(The MEF is a publicly supported, nonprofit organization under section 501(c)3 of the Internal Revenue Code.

Contributions are tax deductible to the full extent allowed by law. Tax-ID 23-774-9796, approved Apr. 27, 1998.

For more information, view our IRS letter of determination.)