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Reply and Questions for Asma

Reader comment on item: Western Civilization on Trial: Why We Should Be Watching Geert Wilders
in response to reader comment: Wilder's Movie - please comment

Submitted by Archimedes2 (Canada), Mar 30, 2010 at 22:25

Asma, for your satisfaction: Yes, I have a PhD. Do you? Insofar as its merits as a short "indy" documentary film, I find Wilders' piece to be an outstanding piece of economy, accomplishing as much in 15 minutes as the bloated, over-funded, over-produced commercial fluff masquerading as documentaries for the cotton-candy crowd in today's market. Fitnah is well conceived and executed. It stays on topic and makes a simple but powerful point, adhering to the strictest principles of economy in film with a discipline rarely seen in the industry these days. Fitnah maintains a strong fidelity to its subject matter, in that Wilders' words are almost nonexistent throughout, appearing only as single printed phrases here and there to make logical transitions. The rest of the film simply allows islamic extremists, their actions, and the Qur'an, to speak for themselves. I am hard pressed to think of another documentarist in recent years who was quite as prepared to allow the subject to speak for itself. A remarkable achievement! As for his use of the Qur'an, at your prompting I have checked the verses as they appear in Fitnah against standard translations by the most respected scholars of Arabic, including some pious muslim scholars. I find that they agree substantially, even down to minor nuances of meaning, with the translations of Yusuf Ali, Pickthal, Shakir and Malik. Not identical, however, to any of them, which would be consistent with a translation first into Dutch and then into English, which is as I presume the film was made. Yet obviously done with some care. If I have any quarrel with Fitnah's use of Qur'an, I would say that the verses are edited too tightly -- too much is left out. This is probably a consequence of the extreme economy with which the film was made. Take, for example, the film's use of Qur'an 8:60, which stops in the middle of the verse after a command to prepare militarily, in order to "strike terror" into the hearts of "your enemy and the enemy of Allah". The verse continues: "...and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know. Whatever ye shall spend in the cause of Allah, shall be repaid unto you, and ye shall not be treated unjustly. " Why was the latter half of the verse omitted? Certainly not because it mitigates the meaning Wilders would draw from it! Indeed, the second half reinforces the first and broadens it, indicating that preparation to wage battle against religious enemies must also take into account unknown enemies in the future such as ... Um, "Western Civilization" -- I believe this addresses one of your later questions. I find particularly bloodcurdling this notion in the last part of the verse that money spent for military preparation as some sort of sacred alms, as if "Allah" places equal value on giving to feed the poor as on "investing" in preparations to kill kuffar like me. Perhaps you'd like to comment on this point, Asma? To which Sharia courts to you propose to take the jihadists of today? I have the only manual of Shafi'i law authorized for use and widely available in the west, Um dat al-Salik, which defines Jihad as to make war against non-muslims for the sake of Allah and for to make Islam supreme. Seems to me that jihadists today are acting quite consistently with this rule, and they certainly claim to be doing so. Of what transgressions of "shariah" would you convict them, Asma? You end, Asma, with the statement "Common sense dictates that freedom of speech is limited when it comes to Human rights and therefore hate speech is a violation of human rights", presumably in reference to the creation of this film. Since there are practically none of Wilders' own words in the film, what exactly do you mean by this assertion in this context, Asma? Is it hateful of him to show videos of muslims saying hateful things? Is it hateful to accurately quote the qur'an or to show footage of actual world events? It may come as a surprise to you, but in the western understanding of "hate speech", truth is considered a defense: Merely telling the truth about somebody is not "hate speech", regardless of how it makes that person feel. Sometimes, the truth just hurts, Asma. I find the notion of "hate speech" repugnant. Not because it is not possible to hate, and express that hate in speech, but because it is very hard to infer an attitude of hate from a person's words, and in almost every well-known instance at issue today, such as the Wilders' case, there is no evidence of actual hatred, only a desperate effort to silence discourse by those unwilling to tackle the actual subject matter. In other words, "hate speech", as used in such situations, is merely a political hammer to win arguments that can't be won in open debate. Hate is something cultivated in the heart. I do not hate you or your coreligionists, Asma. I am convinced that Mr Pipes certainly does not, and I have no evidence that Mr. Wilders does. Do you hate any of us? Speech should not be curtailed. The cure for bad speech is more, and better, speech. But those who harbour their own hatred and train others, particularly children, to hate, incur the wrath of God. In this vein, Asma, perhaps you would care to elaborate on the Islamic principle sometimes referred to as "Al Wala' wal Bara". If your answer to my last question was "No I do not hate non-muslims", then tell me what your interpretation of this principle is, and please reconcile it with the explanation I have found for this principle at numerous official Islamic teaching websites. Are you going to portray the majority of the pious islamic "educational" websites as "gangs, warlords, drugloads, lawless tribesmen"?

I look forward to your reply.

Submitting....

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Reader comments (60) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Dissident breaks ranks within Wilders Party [45 words]Paul WildersMay 12, 2010 15:48172630
Obama Bans use of "Islamic extremism " and "jihad" [89 words]Ksp48Apr 7, 2010 12:27171061
obama banning [94 words]ivyNov 4, 2010 01:39171061
Wilder's Movie - please comment [396 words]Asma ( Lover of Islam (Peace))Mar 21, 2010 02:54170460
1Our dear Asma and the muslim mind [928 words]dhimmi no moreMar 22, 2010 07:30170460
what exactly is the insult [36 words]mythMar 22, 2010 15:30170460
No Insult, Just wrongful conviction. [98 words]Asma (the lover of Islam (Peace))Mar 24, 2010 00:31170460
1Our dear Asma and his I mean her PhD and for the readers read and enjoy [331 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2010 07:41170460
Reply and Questions for Asma [987 words]Archimedes2Mar 30, 2010 22:25170460
It's Just Common Sense!! [730 words]Asma (The lover of Islam (Peace))Apr 1, 2010 14:37170460
Our dear Asma PhD and gem time [718 words]dhimmi no moreApr 2, 2010 07:36170460
slight correction [7 words]dhimmi no moreApr 3, 2010 07:02170460
to asma [75 words]kafurApr 5, 2010 11:19170460
Wilders [13 words]Jon PurizhanskyMar 15, 2010 20:46170188
Question for Daniel Pipes re David Irving vs. Austrian Gov't [203 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
freespeechsupporterMar 8, 2010 17:21169863
How to get famous [179 words]Asma (lover of Islam (peace))Mar 21, 2010 01:57169863
Asma - methinks the lady doth protest too much [153 words]SerendipityMar 22, 2010 03:56169863
Al Harab = war/battle [104 words]Asma (the lover of Islam (Peace)Mar 24, 2010 00:22169863
Our dear Asma who does not know any Arabic is telling us what the Qur'an says in Arabic a language that he I mean she cannot speak read or write [385 words]dhimmi no moreMar 24, 2010 07:12169863
The Forsaken [118 words]trans-parereMar 2, 2010 22:27169581
Geert Wilders [13 words]acts1126cFeb 20, 2010 23:35169229
New elections in the Netherlands; Dutch cabinet has fallen. [134 words]CharlesFeb 20, 2010 10:10169210
A question to Dear Dr. Pipes [67 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Debanjan BanerjeeFeb 14, 2010 12:10168890
Our dear Deb is comparing apples and oranges [472 words]dhimmi no moreMar 27, 2010 11:26168890
Mr Wilders gives interview for Dutch Magazine (excerpt) [667 words]CharlesFeb 12, 2010 14:42168836
Self inflicted opposition it will be [141 words]Paul WildersFeb 13, 2010 08:27168836
Sorry! [19 words]CharlesFeb 13, 2010 12:05168836
Affects [74 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Doug CorriganFeb 11, 2010 20:10168808
The Netherlands doesn't want a First Amendment [97 words]Paul WildersFeb 10, 2010 15:58168762
The NL is a free country. Ain't it?... [351 words]CharlesFeb 12, 2010 10:37168762
It's a free country indeed! [500 words]Paul WildersFeb 13, 2010 08:06168762
Baking cookies in the Netherlands? [360 words]CharlesFeb 16, 2010 07:11168762
Basic democratic values do exist [255 words]Paul WildersFeb 16, 2010 11:52168762
"to prevent abuse" [133 words]mythFeb 16, 2010 12:41168762
Brick by brick, pulling down the multi-cultural dream in the Netherlands.. [781 words]CharlesFeb 17, 2010 16:13168762
Please keep digging and discussing. The NL do have secrets which should be exposed to the world. [254 words]CharlesFeb 9, 2010 15:44168726
Now, wait a minute, Charles [84 words]Peter HerzFeb 11, 2010 10:07168726
Keep a close watch! [15 words]CharlesFeb 12, 2010 10:40168726
some facts about the significance of NL [88 words]mythFeb 13, 2010 13:13168726
The rosy side of the NL; and the other side... [464 words]CharlesFeb 16, 2010 08:11168726
given a "financial downside on the mass immigration" who profits ? [201 words]mythFeb 16, 2010 12:29168726
"near-silence(...) a surprise" change focus on censorship [71 words]mythFeb 9, 2010 12:46168715
The Suicide of the West [125 words]Peter HerzFeb 9, 2010 09:14168701
Soliciting homosexuality & abortion in the Netherlands [47 words]AdrijacoFeb 25, 2010 09:12168701
For Adrijaco [58 words]Peter HerzFeb 25, 2010 16:20168701
Should the US care about Geert Wilders trial? [160 words]Anatoly TsaliovichFeb 8, 2010 19:55168674
the us must care, remember allied liberation of the Netherlands [34 words]mythFeb 9, 2010 12:40168674
Lookout America [91 words]WayneFeb 11, 2010 01:51168674
not only a test for Europe but for the whole world. [231 words]Phil GreendFeb 8, 2010 18:52168666
Something is inherently wrong [141 words]Shirl in OzFeb 8, 2010 16:53168651
Too bad U.S. government fighting itself, and press burying Wilders ... [37 words]kmanFeb 8, 2010 15:42168641
Dutch media still in (self imposed) hush-hush fase. [648 words]CharlesFeb 8, 2010 15:38168639
Well said. I could replace "Dutch" with U.S. and make very few changes ... [103 words]kmanFeb 10, 2010 21:56168639
Freedom of speech [221 words]wim3Feb 8, 2010 15:25168637
Wilders [110 words]Janusz KowalikFeb 8, 2010 14:27168635
England No Longer Exists [47 words]Levi SokolicFeb 8, 2010 11:06168625
Geert Wilders [19 words]SkepticFeb 8, 2010 19:06168625
england still exists [171 words]rwFeb 9, 2010 04:36168625
silence in the face of the Wilders trial is a variation of a traditional antisemitic argument [167 words]mythFeb 8, 2010 09:12168618
Geerd Wilders [100 words]janusz KowalikFeb 9, 2010 12:55168618

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