Continued Women in Islam and Christianity- Scholar

Submitted by Lisa (Canada), Nov 22, 2005 at 16:40

You said "I see you are so convinced of what you say, you have failed to even comment on the quotes I took from the bible and from the teachings of the church. I have shown you how a great Christian reformer like Martin Luther thought of women, I have shown you how a woman should not speak in a church, should not teach or have authority over a man, etc, but you still think that women had equal rights. "

I have replied to this by comparing what Muhammad said and what Jesus said. Martin Luther is not a prophet nor he claims to be one, Martin Luther said "that Muhammad was a devil". Islam Mullah's said and did crimes through out centuries that still exist today, do I have to remind you with what Khoumini said and did against women, in case you don't know he is considered one of the highest religious leaders of Islam. I have answered all of your questions but have not answered any of my arguments about Muhammad's teachings

You said "I have shown you that women started inheriting after more than 1800 years from the birth of Christ, and you still think they had freedom."

Yes it is not what I think it is what I am sure off that Christianity gave women higher regards than Islam did, simply by the life and teachings of Jesus. Jesus' mission was to spread Gods love to humanity, his focus was on the righteous life of people (Men and Women). I have quoted what Jesus preached about family life, marriage, divorce etc. when Jesus said "to love your enemies as much as you love yourself", isn't this an enough quote to promote people's interests to serve each others instead of fighting and steeling the rights of each other.
Jesus said "give to Caesar what is to Caesar and give to GOD what is to GOD". This explains that every person should be granted his/her right.

Jesus didn't have a political agenda nor he created a state, he said "My kingdom is not from this world". He didn't write laws for a state like Muhammad did, laws that may have worked 1400 years ago but don't work today. Quran also says that as a punishment of adultery, a woman should be stonned to death, how come you didn't quote that? Also it says that a thief should have his hand cut, this is an Islamic law, why don't you quote this?. As much as these laws don't apply human dignity today as much as they didn't 1400 years ago.

We Humans went a long journey throughout history and we will continue to grow in our human matters, earth matters etc. We Christian do not need to create a state with Christian law (Sharia law in Islam), we believe in a secular state that gives equal freedom and just for all citizens regardless of their origins or religious differences. Laws are state matters and we trust those who create them and apply them.

You said, "Women in the west still lose their original names and take that of their husband, something totally un-understandable to us, but still you think what you think! "

"Un-understandable to us", so this is hard to believe I guess, I am sure that you know that this is a cultural custom and has nothing to do with Christianity. Like in Arab countries, a woman is called (the mother or Um "her oldest male child"), and the father is called (the father or Abu "his oldest male child") should I say that why don't they call the mother or the father (Um or Abu their oldest female child)?.

"You also have not commented on the research paper I copied about the treatment of women in other religions. You have reached the conclusion that women were treated in a good manner in Arabia before Islam, but have not given us any real examples except the Khadiga example. How could that be, while in Christianity (which is god's religion) women did not even have the freedoms you claim women of Arabia had!! The actual status of women before Islam is reflected in the bible verses and in the teachings of the church. Please refer to these verses and teachings and then try to convince me!! At least in Islam women are not blamed for Adam's exit from heaven. Please refer to my last message for more info about this issue!"

Jesus explained the institution of marriage in two verses I quoted earlier. If women were not given their rights 1400 years ago, then it has nothing to do with what Jesus said or taught, Muslim Women today are oppressed and killed in almost every Muslim country, should I use this as proof that Islam is dishonoring women

"You have given an example that the prophet was asked about women's rights but have failed to provide the actual quotation."

I have given you and Randa lots of examples, please refer to my previous messages

"In Islam, a woman has the right to include any conditions in her marriage contract, including the right to divorce herself, restrict her husband from taking other wives, etc. This is something unheard of in Christianity and Judaism. The inability of a woman to get divorce from her husband has been used by many Islam critics to attack Islam although in Islam a woman can choose to exercise this option if she puts it in her marriage contract, and also she has the right to "elkhol3" whereby she divorces herself from her husband even if such a condition is not in the contract. I think the greatest injustice against women in Christianity is that they are unable to get divorce even if when they hate their husbands. In the teachings of Islam, and in the Sira of the Prophet (PBUH), women were granted divorce when they seized to love their husbands. Again Lisa, you can use many examples of Hadith that you can put out of context to prove your point, and you can interpret them as you wish. But the facts are still very clear: In Islam, women can divorce themselves, they can restrict their men from marrying other women, they can inherit, they do not need to spend on anybody but themselves, etc."

That is NOT true unless you have changed the Quran, the verse in the Quran is very clear it says the husband can marry up to 4 women, it doesn't say that he has to ask his wife before he marries any other woman, the law "elkhol3" is a new (maybe 5 years old law) in Egypt but doesn't comply with what Muhammad said or did. A muslim woman can inherit half of what a man inherits. Where it is written in Quran that Muslim can divoce her husband? I know for sure that women in muslim countries maybe able to divorce themselves but after very long and painful years in courts, A muslim man can divorce a woman only by saying one word (Talqah).

The ability of a woman to divorce herself is not written in the Quran

Peace be with you

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".