To AMK

Submitted by Lisa (Canada), Dec 10, 2005 at 14:39

==Sure, I will read the bible. Which version should I start with?==

The bibles were written by 4 different men in four different timings and different languages, the information in the bibles support each other, all written few years after Jesus resurrection, unlike Quran, the bibles are supported by thousands of eye witnesses and not verses came to A Prophet who is the only witness on its authenticity. Muhammad is the only witness per se on what was called revealed from GOD. The holy men who wrote the Bibles are like thousands who paid their life as a price to witness the truth. Those men lived and died in poverty and had nothing to gain from being the followers of Christ, on the contrary, Christians were tortured, persecuted, thrown to lions, burned alive for three hundred years before Christianity was acknowedged by the Roman empire. It is very simple for someone to say that the bibles are corrupted or Christians have corrupted the message of Christ, but why would Christians do that what was the gain from doing that?. The message of the bibles is simple it is all about love, mercy and peace, what is corrupted in this kind of a message?

The political and the power gained by Quran is tremendous, Islam can not be separated from state, the laws in Islam are claimed to fit all the world with no time limit, lets take fasting as an example in Quran, it should start from the moment the sun rise until sunset, the sun light during summer in many parts in this world stays for 24 hours a day does that mean that a muslim can not eat during the month of Ramadan at all?. Do not tell me that there is a fatwa on this. If there is a fatwa then simply you admit that what is written in Quran doesn't apply to the whole world all the time. This is only one debate out of thousands

==Husbands and wives; treat each other with love care, Allah has made man and woman as a support & love for one another, and so many other verses, of course you won't believe them so lets leave it at that. About Extra Marital sex, it is just not permitted, full stop! Muslims who practice one word Talaq are wrong, just like non Muslims who practice polygamy. Don't jump to conclusions using examples of practices by bad Muslims. A woman or a man cannot be forced to marry against their wishes, the Holy Prophet (PBUH) annulled marriages which were based on force.==

One word Talaq is wrong I agree but isn't it what Allah permitted and allowed men to do?
Non muslim who are supposed practicing polygymy, I am not sure what you meant with non muslim, if you mean Christians, I think I have clarified this, there is NO polygymy in christiany. And adultery is a fatal sin in Christianity.

=Equality can be defined in relative terms only; it would be stupid of anyone to say that women and men are equal on physical, psychological, emotional basis.=

I can't see your point here

=All the peaceful messages are taken from Christianity, all the deriding remarks about Jesus (PBUH) and Mariam are left out, all the incorrect scientific & historical facts have been corrected? Ok, lets leave it at that then. Lisa, question yourself a little more!==

What Historical facts? do you mean Marriam bint Omran? Or Christians believe that Marriam is a GOD? What Scientific miracles? If you know Arabic, you will know that the Tafseer of what so called scientific verses is nothing but illusions. You are the one who needs to question yourself, I am wandering though since Quran is full of what so called scientific facts, then why didn't muslims discovered these scientific miracles long time ago before infidales discovered them for you

==When I mentioned Sharawai and Qaradawi, it means that those people have judged (Ifta').....
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The Holy Prophet (PBUH) married his wives before the revelation was revealed of no more wives, and it was also revealed that he is not allowed to divorce any of his wives. Around that time and in that age the Arabs had hundreds of wives.==
I have to do things in consultation with my wife. But if I come to the decision to marry someone for the good of it (may be she is a divorcee, needy, etc.) then I can; however, if she has put a condition in the marriage contract then I can't
BTW, my wife would kill me if I even thought about marrying another woman :-)==

Do you muslim men think that you are GODs gift to women on earth, your comment that you would marry a woman if needy or something, again why can't you think of better way to help women other than marrying them and put them under your power because you are spending on them?

First of all why didn't you reply about Sharawi and Qaradawi fatwa? What is granted to husbands by Allah can not be demolished by wives

Can't you see that Allah worked for the benefit of Muhammad like many times in Quran? Why don't you question this for GOD sake?
About the contract, lets say that you are right, i.e. a woman can dictate her husband ability to remarry in the contract of marriage, since you cliam that Quran is a complete book of laws, then couldn't Allah clarify the verse and say that women has a say in marriage and can dictate her husbands rights that were granted by Allah to men.

=What do you mean?, so are you with cutting thieves hands?.......
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There are rules and regulations governing cutting off hands too. In Islam education is an obligation, just like Zakat (fin support). You didn't answer my question, will cutting off hands increase or decrease crime.==

I am just tired of what you call rules to govern this barbaric laws, these rules don't make these barbaric laws right, to answer your question, no cutting thiefs hands will not reduce theft, it will create A barbaric society similar to the societies in Muslims countries. It will create handicaps that are burden on society. Why can't you think of taking preventive or correction measures instead.

==There is separation in Christianity under circumstances like the one you have explained.......
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Ok, whatever you say! BTW, in which version of Christianity?==

Christians are all following Jesus' teachings, this is very clear to all of them, the differences are very minor between Christian's sectors.

==I heard this so many times from muslims,............
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What verses from which version of the Bible? I have heard Christians giving varying responses from nothing is mentioned to Polygyny being permitted. I have answered your 13 wives question above!==

AGAIN, Marriage in Christianity is between ONE man and ONE woman. Polygamy is not permitted under any circumstances. If you are talking about Mormons who are not Christians. The same as Ismaili or Alawi in Islam, the sunni don't consider them muslims

==Zakat is equivalent to charity in Christianity,...............
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Charity is compulsory in Christianity? I didn't assume women to be illiterate, I posed a hypothetical question. Islam doesn't stop women from working, from supporting her family!==

I am wandering where the most money came from to help the victims of tsunami and Pakistan earthquake?

==In Christianity husband and wife vow to live together for bad and for good......
Yes I can see fine examples of this in modern society. Now am I not behaving just like you, jumping to conclusions based on practices of the so called followers?==

These are not practices, Jesus was clear in this, married Man and Woman will live together for bad and for good until death set them apart. I don't have to quote any bad behaviour from any muslim, your prophet set a great example of marriage (I guess)

==If a man had a "wado' i.e. clean and ready for pray then his wado' will considered bad if he had a hand shake with a woman. Interesting!!........
Wow, really! I learn more and more about Islam from you Lisa (that was sarcastic if you didn't realise)==


It is your choice if you want to be sarcastic, it doesn't change the fact that what I said is absolutely true, ask your mullahs

==We Christians believe in decency,.......
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This sounds great on the face of it but who decides the level of decency. Some may consider mini skirts decent, some may consider bikini tops decent. We believe the creator has created everything in the worlds; he has defined decency, for man and woman.==
You follow a book that tells you what to wear, what to eat, how to eat, when to you're your hands, when to greet people, I see how hard is it to believe that non muslims have brains and don't need to have a dictionary to live in decency, in peace with oneself and with others.

==Where do muslim get this concept,...............
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Lisa, the challenge to you (with the help of all your helpers amongst men and jinns) still stands, produce one Surah even similar to the Holy Quran! Submit it to a neutral Arabic scholar and get his/her view. If you fear retribution you can use the various tools available on the internet to hide your identity. Yes I have heard of Salman Rushdie, why did he also try to produce a Surah? Using a swear word for every 5 words is his idea of literary genius? Actually I think a lot of posters here take inspiration from him.==
How illiterate a person can be to see this in Quran, but whom am I talking to, someone who is brainwashed and doesn't even speak Arabic, doesn't know what Arabic poetry is and still insists that Quran was written in a fabulous rythym and language. For GOD sake wake up. BTW, I have checked again, like hundreds of people in the Jahaliya, it was Taha Hussien who challenged to write a book much better than Quran. On the other hand lets assume that you are right and Quran in written in poetry, what is more important on what is written or how it is written. What is so beautiful about a book that is obsessed of killing, Hell and Sex?


==Unlike Quran, we don't claim that the bible is a scientific book
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Do you claim that it is the Word of God or not? If not then why follow anything written in it, just change laws to suit your needs. Isn't that what is happening today? If you claim that it is the Word of God then are you saying that God made mistakes? That is deplorable!==

I have answered this before, a human is not slave to laws, laws exist to serve human. Jesus Teachings can not be changed and will never be changed because they are divine, Jesus teachings about marriage, adultery, killing, mercy and love to parents, durty to GOD etc. are divine and can not be changed

Church laws is different, they are made to serve humanity, example, the church instead of having one mass on Sunday, they celebrate 3 masses on Sunday and one mass on Saturday night, this is to suite peoples hard schedules.

I hope one day that you will see the truth and truth will set your soul free, I hope that you and all muslims will open your minds and hearts to understand the real love of GOD almighty.

GOD Bless you all

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