To Lisa, John, AA and others: My comments

Submitted by AMK (India), Dec 1, 2005 at 09:59

Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim

Everyone, once again; I am not a scholar, preacher, researcher. I will not quote websites and blogs. So do not expect daily posts from me.
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To Lisa

Kafir means one who doesn't believe in the message of Islam. It's an Arabic word and if you feel hurt by it I'm truly sorry, but I don't feel there's any reason to feel hurt. It is not derogatory, it's like you calling me a non believer of Christianity.

I think you have misunderstood what I mean by "Argue with Kafirs in most pleasant ways", or may be you are twisting words to put me down? I was using one of the verses of the Quran (not exactly quoting but taking an excerpt). The just of it being "talk to the Kafirs, preach to them, argue with them in the most pleasant ways so that they may see the light" The verse does NOT go on to say kill them if they don't agree. Another verse says there is no compulsion in religion.

More comments from me in reply to your other posts below.
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To A.A.

What was the population of India when the Muslim kings killed 100 million Hindus? What stopped them for killing a few hundreds of million more? What is a Hanafi king? Muslims kings were Muslim kings, there is hardly any difference in ideology between Hanafi, Shaafi and the other schools of thought. There is a slight variation (mostly in the postures and actions) in the way they pray but the teachings of Islam are always the same. Since you seem to be Indian you must be knowing Akbar, his Hindu wife Jodabai, his trusted worker Birbal. They survived because they paid Jaziyah?

There were so many Christians in Spain that they abolished or killed all the Muslims? Excellent explanation!

Not many Kafirs or Muslims know this but the Arabic word used to describe the mates in Heaven in certain verses (may be not the verse you quote) is gender insensitive.

So some scholars explain that even women are promised fair mates in heaven. Of course not for dying in war; Women are not required and probably not even allowed to fight in wars!

Now I'll explain my understanding of Jaziyah, it's not something I have read or someone has told me, it is not an official Islamic explanation but it is my logical mind doing some thinking. Muslims in a Muslim nation are obliged to pay Zakat (2.5%). Non-Muslims are not obliged to pay this. This can be likened to a group of people who have to pay income tax and another group who do not have to pay income tax. Isn't that unfair?

About your conclusion of Dhimmis, which may be based on your explanations on the present day prohibitions in strict Islamic States; from what I recall, there are several traditions of the Prophet (PBUH) and then subsequently his righteous companions (RA) where Muslims were asked not to damage Churches, places of worship and where regular services were allowed to go on.

Once again, an excellent explanation why Indonesia is the most populous Muslim Country. At least John has some reasoning behind his statement.

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To John

I am not coming to Scholar's defence, I'm sure Allah has graced him with enough wisdom to defend himself. Also, I'm sure he doesn't need a defender as you're not out to physically hurt him, are you? I do not want to waste time by giving references of websites and wikipedia-ish media as the authenticity of the same are questionable. Although as you know, finding these sites is Childs play in this age of Google.

I consider myself lucky as I did not have to go through the phase of understanding Islam, on account of me being born into a Muslim house. I consider you lucky as you are participating in a discussion about Islam, you are being given your chance to see the true path.

Every child is born a Muslim, it is his surroundings that dictate what religion (or not) he follows. But every man (and woman of course) will be given a chance in their life to see the light. My faith does not qualify me for heaven automatically, I have to work for it. You being born in a non Muslim household does not qualify you for hell, you will be given your chance sometime in life. But Allah knows what you will follow, the same way Allah knows what I will follow. If I give up Islam or do Shirk or Kufr I may be following you in to the Fire too (if you don't see the light)! I pray to Allah he always keeps me on the right path.

The Human nature you describe is Islam; Islam is Humanity; Islam has been around for ever, even before Adam (PBUH). I certainly don't call Christianity Satan's religion, however you consider Islam as one! Well, to each his own.

The problem is Muslims can never think about degrading Abraham, Moses, Jesus (peace be upon them all), Mother Mary (Mariam). We consider them one of the most powerful Prophets (not Mariam) Allah sent, we consider Mariam one of the ladies of Paradise (one who has been assured paradise). Christian Holy books make derogatory statements about Mariam, The Holy Quran admonishes them. So while you utter derogatory statements about Allah, Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) and Muslims (who follow the Holy Quran) in general; we could never ever think about insulting your deities.

Satan didn't wake up one day and thought "Hmmm... so many worshipers of Allah, let me lead them all astray". He promised Allah he would try his best to lead every single man astray with Allah's permission; and Allah granted him his wish, only until the Final Day.

Your description of Islam being Satan's religion is at best laughable (although I feel sad for you) and at worst blasphemous! Still, I do not want to hurt you!

Even though your 10 points are illogical conclusions I'll briefly comment on them.

1: It seems Satan is your friend or you know all his moves; is that why you came to the conclusion that he comes only in the dark?

2: And this is in contrast to the promise (and realisation) of sex, power, food in this world?

3: and 6: are somewhat contradictory; show off your body, as much as you want, stir up lust in people who ogle at you; but when it comes to sex you must restrain from it.

4: By this definition present (and not so past) day USA fits the bill perfectly. What is mentioned in the Old and New Testament about Slavery, I guess nothing? As critics of Islam always say, is silence considered to be consent?

5: Why haven't you ever quoted Surah 9:6, to explain the meaning and context 9:5. I would love to see how you twist that too. Who deserted Jesus (PBUH); were they honoured by God for the desertion?

6: Same as 3:

7: As opposed to forgetting God completely; no Morality, no fear of God, no love for your creator? I assume Church attendance is breaking all known records? Salah (compulsory prayer) is prescribed to keep us in check from doing wrong throughout the day. Which true Muslim would consume alcohol and walk in to the Masjid to pray. That's the difference between Islam and other Religions; Islam shows you the path to do Good.

8: Then there is hardly any difference between what Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) did and what Jesus (PBUH) did. His followers attacking anyone who oppose the teachings is the point that is being debated so I better not comment on that; but it could be said that Jesus' (PBUH) did not have the guts to protect him? Or they knew he is God or the son of God and doesn't need any protection?

9: And the new Old and New Testaments do not ask non-believers to follow the path being preached? Is that the Church's position these days; don't worry, worship who you want, you will still be lead to heaven eventually? As earlier, the point being debated is what you call the hate verses so I can't comment on that can I? I believe the hate verses are not calling for killing humanity as a whole, only for the group who oppress me; you believe otherwise, to each his own. I also believe the verses call me to forgive my oppressors if they give up (no need to convert, Inshallah someday they will); somehow all your copies of the Holy Quran do not contain this verse or the commentaries fail to quote the context?

10: Hmmm.... Do your books confirm what you say, not only point 10: but all points? Or is all this your own conclusion of identifying Satanism? Is this how the forefathers of present day Americans hunted out witches and burnt them at the stake? Ah, those witches must have been Muslims! Abe Lincoln, JFK, Rajiv Gandhi; all Satan's rulers? How did you jump to the conclusion that Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) died without fulfilling Allah's orders and will? Is it conclusively proven that he died due to poisoning?

Really John, I don't know whether the goal of these 10 points and all your arguments is to convince Muslims like me about how bad Islam is or to pull wool over the eyes of non-Muslim (Kafir) readers. If the former then sorry you have failed miserably; if the latter then Allah knows best and time will tell if you have succeeded. Although I'm sure there have been millions like you doing exactly what you are doing since the time our Prophet (PBUH) started preaching; but history and trends don't seem to favour you! Are you worried that your children, their children and so on will see the true path and remember you as their opponent and critic?

You Said
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What I am worried about and rally all good men to fight is the true followers of Satan's religion. The true worshippers will desire to kill all of us and implements Satan's laws on earth.

We are not after fairy-tale worshippers. They can conduct their rituals in peace. They leave us alone, we leave them alone. We are after the true worshippers. We have to defend our lives.
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Now isn't this you giving a call to Kafirs to fight Muslims? What happened to all the teachings of Peace; and turn the other cheek? Oh turning the other cheek is not HUMAN NATURE, then are Jesus' preachings against HUMAN NATURE?

Ok, and all the Malaysian Muslims are killing non-Muslims to further their religion? On the basis of your Malaccan example India should now be a Muslim majority country.

Any forced conversion goes against the Holy Quran "There is no compulsion in religion".

It is idiotic to assume Allah does not know that the people who are converted by force will never believe in the message in their hearts. It is even more idiotic to assume Allah & his Prophet (PBUH) would want fake Muslims amongst their people!
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Lisa, only 10 Commandments to govern Humanity. Sounds a little limiting doesn't it?

Lisa, according to the Holy Quran, a woman is the man's equal, not inferior. Isn't that enough?

Lisa, clarity in the Holy Quran is a given if the readers are logical and open hearted, many a times clarity is achieved by supplementary Hadeeth. And many a times even clear signs are not enough to convince people who have their hearts sealed, who are blind and deaf.

Lisa, you are an authority on the workings of Islamic courts, or is this just a presumption?

If all the thieves had their hands cut; would thievery increase or decrease?

So Lisa; a wife has to bear an abusive husband, a man has to bear a wife who cannot care less for the husband; there is constant tension in the house, let the children be affected by all the tension but NO TO DIVORCE! In Islam divorce is the least liked (by Allah) of the permissible things, IT IS THE LAST RESORT!

About Polygyny; The Holy Quran is the only book that says marry only one; no other religious book says that. But The Holy Quran puts and upper limit of 4. Can you please show me any verse from your books that say marry only one?

There are approximately 5 million more women than men in the USA, discount a few million homosexuals who would not marry a woman. Now assume every woman found a man, what happens to the extra 5 or more million? Who would satisfy her sexual needs? Oh women are not allowed to have sexual needs, Sex is evil right? Assume the women have no sources of income, should they all rely on you to help them financially?

If a woman doesn't do housework, hates her husband for whatever reason; and say in retaliation the husband doesn't provide her with anything (remember, he can't divorce her). She is liberated to earn herself right? What if she has no skills, no talent and is basically useless, how does she earn her money? Oh, you don't even believe in Zakat so no one is bound to help her! Should she sell her body?

In Islam it is the husband's duty to provide for the wife and to treat her with fairness and to treat her well.

How can you contradict your self in one single sentence? Make up your mind, Muslim women are allowed in the Mosques or not? I (a Muslim) say they are but are not obliged too; they do not have to sit back behind men, but they have to be segregated from men and men have to be segregated from women.

Since you do not believe in the veil or any clothing restrictions and are campaigning for women to lead prayers, lets imagine this; A woman in a mini skirt and a sheer top leading a huge gathering of men situated extremely close to her. Would you agree to do this?

Lisa, Taha Hussein challenged the Holy Quran, where is it; I can't find any reference to it! The challenge still stands; Produce a single Surah, somewhat SIMILAR to the Quran, and take the help of all mankind and all the jinns! Some lame copies I have seen even feel the need to copy the start of every Surah; Bismillah ir rahman ir rahim.

Lisa, since Arabic is your mother tongue you are truly an unfortunate soul; one who was blessed with the Arabic language but whiled her time away on inconsequential things like song and music. Though it's never too late.

The Quran is not about song and music; Poetry yes, one may call it the highest form of Poetry but the intention of the revelation is not to teach the followers Poetry, for that we have people like Taha Hussein.

Lisa, John, what about the scientific problems in the Bible? Surprising that God would make mistakes in his book! To learn more about this and about Science in the Holy Quran I urge you to get some video material from www.irf.net Especially the debate between Dr. Zakir Naik and Dr. William Campbell. By the way, this will also explain the other posters comment about sperm being made in the back of the rib! In case you jump to conclusions again, I am in no way affiliated with the IRF, do not know them personally but they are my Muslim brothers as all Muslims are.

May Allah forgive all our sins and may Allah show you the true path; Peace be with you!

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