Curmally: Should not the kaffir's blood boil at the hate in the Koran for non-Muslims??

Submitted by Plato (India), Sep 18, 2009 at 08:03

Curmally, you write,

>>First off if the truth raises hate and poison in your bioling blood, then you haven't accepted that there are others who do not think like you or hold the same truths.<<

What is it with Muslims? Can't you see that the Koran is so full of hate for us kaffirs that it JUSTIFIABLY makes our blood boil? How do you justify the so-called truths of verses in the Koran like:

009.033 YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath sent His Messenger with guidance and the Religion of Truth, to proclaim it over all religion, even though the Pagans may detest (it).

The truth of this verse is that Allah (aka Muhammad) wants to impose on us a religion, which even He admits, we detest.

058.021 YUSUFALI: Allah has decreed: "It is I and My messengers who must prevail": For Allah is One full of strength, able to enforce His Will.

The truth of this verse is that Allah wants to impose His religion of submission on those who have as yet failed to submit, meaning us, the remaining stubborn kaffirs.

009.029 YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah….. until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

In case the meaning of this verse is not clear here a sahih hadith that clarifies it:

Muslim: [Book 043, Number 7185: Sa'id b. Jubair reported: I said to Ibn 'Abbas about Sura Tauba, whereupon he said: As for Sura Tauba, it is meant to humiliate (the non-believers and the hypocrites). There is constantly revealed in it (the pronoun) minhum (of them) and minhom (of them, i. e. such is the condition of some of them) till they (the Muslims) thought that none would be left unmentioned out of them who would not be blamed (for one fault or the other). I again said: What about Sura Anfal? He said: It pertains to the Battle of Badr. I again asked him about Sura al-Hashr. He said: It was revealed in connection with (the tribe) of Banu Nadir. ]

So the mercy to all mankind is told by the all-merciful that Muslims must humiliate us kaffirs to make us part of humankind.

>>If that makes me a grave digger then so be it.<<

That is what Muslims have been doing for the last 1400 years. Digging the graves of kaffirs who refused to submit willingly or be humiliated. By some estimates there are about 60 million such graves in India, probably some them those of your own ancestors.

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

>>The West has tried to dig our graves for the last 1100 odd years on one pretext or another.<<

How come there are 1100 million Muslims still standing after all the grave digging by the West. As is typical with Muslims, this is the grave digger accusing the dead in the grave of trying to dig his grave. Muslims claim that the crusaders were digging the graves of Muslims forgetting that before this they had been digging graves of Christians all over the Middle East. Retaliation for a Muslim crime is called aggression. The prophet taught Muslims well with all his gazwas claimed as self defence.

Muslims do not need any pretext to attack as Allah has given you his authority in 9:29 quoted above and 9:111 which promises you great rewards for implementing 9:29.

>> I am not here to hurl my shoe at you, call you names or shut my ears.<<

No need for you to waste your energy as Allah has done all that for you in the Koran. All you have to do is hurl the following verses at us:

002.161 YUSUFALI: Those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- on them is Allah's curse, and the curse of angels, and of all mankind;

008.022 YUSUFALI: For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not.

>>Whether I love my God in heaven or not is between him and me and should not concern you.<<

All kaffirs pray that Muslims follow this advice. Unfortunately we are aware that we should be concerned about this love of yours for Allah, for He has instructed you in 9:33, quoted above, that Muslims have to enforce submission to Allah even if we detest Islam. And 9:29 and 9:111 instruct you to fight us kaffirs for love of your Allah. Non-Muslims are extremely wary of Muslims' love of Allah.

>>I am here to talk and tell you something. It may be unpleasant but it has to be said.<<

We are quite immune to unpleasantness from Muslims on this blog. Just take a peek at Mansoor or Bilal's posts here.

>>If I have said anything, it is because of my religion Islam, that is constantly being targeted.<<

You read in the verses I have quoted how Islam targets non-Muslims. Do have anything to say about them? Typically you are accusing the victim of being the victimizer. Islam has been victimizing kaffirs and people of the Book for 1400 years as mandated by Allah (9:29, 9:33 etc, etc). Islam targets Christians specifically by blaspheming Jesus, calling him a mere prophet instead of Son of Allah.

>>It is being done so in this age, because of the stand we have takena stand that does not pleaser the West about Israel.<<

It all comes back to Israel. You probably believe the West is expiating its sins of commission against the Jews by protecting them from Muslims. But the West also protected you from the Russian bear for decades. It put an end to ethnic cleansing of Muslims by their Christian brothers in Serbia

>>We were not responsible for Auschwitz, Bergen-Belsen Treblinka or Sobibor.<<

Nobody is blaming you. Haven't you heard? They never happened! They were just phantasmagoric inventions of Jews to defame their present allies, the West. Even the faked moon landing of NASA cannot hold a candle to this stupendous achievement. Why do you think they are about the smartest people on earth. They were Allah's chosen people after all. He seems to have forgotten to transfer their brilliance to His new chosen people who are now down in the dumps.

Now what will all the Muslims who bring up the Holocaust to batter Christians do?

>>Nor have we washed the streets of Jerusalem with blood as the Crusaders did.<<

But you did make a river flow red with the blood of some hapless Iraqis. Remember what the Sword of Islam did in Iraq? You want me to reveal what Islamic sources say about this Companion of the Prophet? He was a great imitator of the Prophet especially in beheading and marital affairs. Here is a hint on what the sahaba was capable of:

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy. Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the Prophet gained victory."

>>I have no fight against Christianity or Judaism or Hinduism or Buddhism or any religion you may care to enumerate.<<

Are you really a Muslim as you claim to be? You cannot be as you are rejecting Allah's commands in 9:29 and 9:33 and 9:111.

>>I will speak out and if necessary fight and die in defence of my religion.<<

You can do that of course. But more importantly Allah expects you to fight and die not to defend your religion but to decimate the other religions. By now you know the verses that make this demand on you.

>>Have you heard me say any religion other than mine is bad or wrong?<<

ROTFL. You really are not a Muslim if don't do that. It is what the Koran does. And you do something worse, you PRAY using verses like 8:22 quoted above. Or one which tells you that Jews are cursed because they call Uzair, son of god or some such thing. You will have to give many such verses a wide berth if you do not wish to say anything bad about other religions. Every time you use these verses in your prayers you are abusing and cursing other religions.

>>What gives you the right or for that matter anyone the right to pick on my religion or put it down or even sit in judgement on it?<<

We demand that right as Islam has taken on itself the unilateral right to not just sit in judgment but curse and abuse us and Muslims curse and abuse us when they pray using these verses. You expect us kaffirs to submit with humility to what Allah says about us in his Book and you in your prayers? Remove the curse and abuse verses and your religion WILL be respected like other religions. As dhimmi says, deal??

>> It is mine and not yours. Haven't youi heard of the saying "To each his own and God for us all?"<<

You are welcome to your religion, of course. But you are not welcome to impose Allah's killer verses like 9:5, 9:29 or 9:111.

>>The Shari'a is no more than a legal interpretation of what would be the correct way to live as Islam is more than a religion ,it is a complete way of life.<<

Islam being a complete way of life is exactly what bothers us. In trying to be a complete Muslim are also told how to deal with kaffirs by Sharia. This includes Koran 9:28, 9:29. 9:05, 9:88 o

>>I don't tell you or anybody how to live or what you should believe.<<

But your religion insists that kaffirs believe in this Allah of yours. And if you don't believe that kaffirs should be made to believe in Allah then you will be considered a kaffir by Allah. You are on the horns of a dilemma. Try sorting this one out.

>>Why shouild you or anybody object to how we Muslims choose to live? Who gave you the right?<<

Who objects to how Muslims live. You build your mosques and madrassas in which ever country you exist (but no quid pro quo from Muslims in their own countries), you keep your women under lock and key as required by sharia. The only sharia things we will not allow is stoning adulterers, amputating limbs for theft, slitting throats for apostasy, bring back the Islamically halal institution of slavery or have a harem (this is winked at in many kaffir countries).

>>If you are a Christian, then know that islam is the only religion that accords respect and accepts Jesus Christ as a Prophet of God.<<

The only religion? What about Christians? What about Hindus, who respect all gods. You respect god (Jesus) by calling him a mortal? LOL. By accepting Jesus as a prophet you insult his status as god's Son.

>>We accept the immaculate conception, and even have a chapter in the Quran e Karin named after his mother, the Virgin Mary and hold that she is without blame or sin.<<

Big deal. If you accept Jesus as a prophet you very well can't have His mother a woman of loose virtue.

>> We accept the Christs miracles and his teachings as divinely inspired. We do not accept that he is the Son of God as you do if you are a Christian. We maintain the Christ sits in heaven at thr right hand of the Almighty. The Prophets of the Jews are our Prophets.<<

You blasphemed Jesus again by saying He is not Son of God. And who else but a son will sit at Allah's right hand? The only space remaining is at the left hand of Allah (nothing prevents Allah from having millions of hands of course) which is considered a lesser position. Who is going to sit there? Will Jesus be displaced from His seat on Judgment day when Muhammad is miraculously recreated? If Muhammad has bypassed Judgment Day why is he not sitting at Allah's right hand?

>>WE have no fight with jews we have a fight with Zionism.<<

You keep surprising me. What kind of a Muslim are you? You don't even know who your strongest enemies are despite Allah having actually REVEALED the fact to you! Read:

005.082 YUSUFALI: Strongest among men in enmity to the believers wilt thou find the Jews and Pagans; and nearest among them in love to the believers wilt thou find those who say, "We are Christians": because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant.

Muslims' fight with the Jews started almost immediately after Muhammad usurped power in Medina. It continues to this day. Zionism is just an excuse to escape being called anti-Jew (sometimes mistakenly called anti-Semitism).

>>I am no follower of Bin laden or any extremist organisation. I am a proud Muslim who is quite willing to take part in the Cruisade that has gone on for over 1100 years and I am ready to for you anytime of your choice, with your sword, scabbard and all.<<

As things stand if the Christian West did start another crusade against you, Muslims will be thrown back to the age of swords and scabbards.

>>Let me add here you don't know what Jehad is. If you did, you wouldn't be saying what you are. Firstly, there are two types of jehad. The Greater Jehad is against one's self and the lesser jehad isto fight in the way of Allah(swt). Which one are you talking about?<<

Seamus was, I am pretty sure, talking about the seriously misnamed Lesser Jihad. Muslims battling their own internal demons using the Greater Jihad do not harm any one, except when the demons set them on the Lesser Jihad trail. Your belief that Muslims were at the receiving end of 1100 years of crusades puts you at risk of downgrading yourself to the Lesser Jihad.

So you think the the Lesser Jihad, because it is so named, counts for less than Greater Jihad? Let us see what your scholars tell us about the Lesser Jihad.

Quotes are from the Legacy of Jihad Edited by Andrew Bottom, Prometheus Books, New York: Ibn Khaldun, Maliki jurist, renowned philosopher, historian and sociologist summarized these consensus opinions from five centuries of prior Sunni Muslim jurisprudence with regard to…Jihad: "In the Muslim community, the holy war is a religious duty, because of the universalism of the [Muslim] mission and [the obligation to] convert everybody to Islam either by persuasion or force…The other religious groups did not have a universal mission, and the holy war was not a religious duty for them, save only for purposes of defence…Islam is under obligation to gain power over other nations." Page 28 Ref. The Muqqadima: An introduction to history.

Could anyone but Ibn Khaldun have done such a beautiful job of summarizing the purpose of Jihad.

Here is one more celebrated Muslim, and a Sufi to boot, on Jihad: From the same book, page 199:

…[O]ne must go on jihad (i.e. warlike razzias or raids) at least once a year…one may use a catapult against them [non-Muslims] when they are in a fortress, even if among them are women and children. One may set fire to them and/or drown them…If a person of the ahl al-kitab is enslaved, his marriage is [automatically] revoked…One may cut down trees…One must destroy their useless books. Jihadists may take as booty whatever they decide…they may steal as much as they need… From Kitab al-Wagiz, fi fiqh madhab al-imam al-Safi.

Sufficient for the day to bring home the concept of the Lesser Jihad.

>>You will note that we Muslims are not unwilling to die for what we believe in.<<

Willing to die for what you believe in is eminently understandable and a commendable quality. But what we cannot countenance is your willingness to bring death to others to enforce your belief a la verse 9:29 or 9:111.

>>It is better to die honourably than to live on bent knees or take dictation from those who do not let us believe and live as we choose.<<

Spoken like an honourable man, Curmally, albeit Islamically honest. There is one fly in the ointment and that is your religion not honouring this sentiment in us kaffirs. If we do not humiliate ourselves on bent knees (literally) your Allah considers it rebellion against His Majesty. Read 9:29 once more but replace words that refer to unbelievers with Muslim to feel the effect.

>> And you better believe it. You have examples of Iraq and Afghanistan in front of you. Eight years of fighting and losing hasn't taught you that it takes more than weapons to fight. It takes a man willinmg to live by and die for what he believes in. Keep this in mind and close to your heart.<<

Do a reality check. Check who is really fighting whom by looking at the casualty figures. You will be surprised.

But we are not surprised that as usual with Muslims you have put a sting in the tail.

Regards

Plato

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