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Reader comment on item: Muslim-Controlled Governments Subsidize Conversions of Kafirs
in response to reader comment: For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir?

Submitted by Abdul Rahman Reijerink (Australia), Jul 19, 2006 at 07:32

my argument about connotation/denotation has been turning over in my mind for days now. It has finally struck me why I am probably correct and "dhimmi" is wrong.

for Kaffir to mean (ie denotation as opposed to its common assumed meaning or connotation):-

"1. Non-Muslims (as if anyone cares).

2. Muslims under certain conditions as in the case of those who celebrate Muhammad's birthday and those who visit the tombs of Sufi saints (ah the warm and fuzzy Islam)."

the prophet Muhammad saws must have coined the word himself, just looking at your construction of it shows that it post dates the prophet saws. Therefore these are connotative meanings, so what does the actual word itself mean? If he (swas) did not coin the word, then it cannot mean specifically what is asserted above, as muslims as we understand them did not exist before then.

This is so obviously a wahhabi interpretation of the word and therefore a modern construction, how could kaffir apply to a group of people (who outnumber wahhabis) who see themselves as muslims if that meaning predates their practise? How can it be generalised as the proper meaning of the word from a small groups interpretation of it (esp. point two)?

i know this is not the clearest expression that this deserves but anyone who is engaging in dialogue should be able to understand what I am trying to say.

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Reader comments (40) on this item

Title Commenter Date Thread
Malaysian Govt. PaysPreachers for Marrying Kafirs [18 words]S.C.PandaAug 18, 2006 01:4653311
... Wrong fact! [44 words]fade leyAug 6, 2006 00:4751764
minorities in malaysia [54 words]RAJESH GOGNAJul 1, 2006 06:0748644
Discrimination in Muslim majority country [167 words]GopalJul 1, 2006 01:4648636
Malaysian Government Pays Preachers for Marrying Kafirs [23 words]steven lJun 30, 2006 22:0048624
Kaffirs reference offensive [101 words]
w/response from Daniel Pipes
Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJun 30, 2006 11:5948560
For Abdul Rahman: is the word kaffir offensive? [780 words]dhimmi no moreJul 1, 2006 07:4148560
your interpretation is wrong [61 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 4, 2006 07:3348560
Abdul Rahman: Islam and the turth! And how do you propose that one can cover the truth? [142 words]dhimmi no moreJul 4, 2006 17:3748560
wrong [230 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 6, 2006 05:4748560
For Abd al-Rahman (this is the proper transliteration of your name) [710 words]dhimmi no moreJul 6, 2006 18:4848560
hostile and nasty [638 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:0748560
Dr. Pipes [71 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 14, 2006 06:1448560
For Abd al-Rahman: Do you really know what are really diacriticla points and not marks as you claim? [216 words]dhimmi no moreJul 14, 2006 21:5548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and the poor muslim theology [765 words]dhimmi no moreJul 15, 2006 08:0148560
What is a decent translation? [60 words]Kevin MJul 15, 2006 20:5548560
addressed to the arrogant one [286 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 16, 2006 06:2048560
For Kevin: And a good translation of the Qur'an [696 words]dhimmi no moreJul 16, 2006 08:1148560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and who is really a kaffir? [73 words]dhimmi no moreJul 17, 2006 06:4348560
read properly [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 18, 2006 22:1248560
refutation [234 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 19, 2006 07:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "connotation and denotation" Chutzpah and other sordid matters [1169 words]dhimmi no moreJul 19, 2006 18:5248560
please explain [190 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 20, 2006 05:3248560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and Chutzpah!!! [562 words]dhimmi no moreJul 21, 2006 07:2548560
For 'Abd al-Rahman and "covering of sins" and the word kaffir!! [168 words]dhimmi no moreJul 22, 2006 07:1548560
read what I wrote truthfully [182 words]Abdul Rahman ReijerinkJul 22, 2006 18:2648560
For 'Abd al-Rahman: "covering up the truth?" And Muslim logic!! [594 words]dhimmi no moreJul 23, 2006 18:4648560
For Abd al-Rahman [225 words]MoayiddOct 9, 2007 09:0148560
Our dear Moayidd and gem time [283 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 07:5648560
More gems from our dear Moayidd and big time falsafa [325 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 18:5648560
Slight correction [24 words]dhimmi no moreOct 10, 2007 20:1348560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and his examination in Syriac and Egyptian and Arabic and Judeo-Arabic [173 words]dhimmi no moreOct 12, 2007 18:3748560
Clarification [168 words]MoayiddSep 7, 2009 00:3648560
Our dear Mo'ayyid and the word Kufr [1071 words]dhimmi no moreSep 12, 2009 08:5148560
Oh I'm waiting for your naswer our dear Mo'ayyid [211 words]dhimmi no moreSep 26, 2009 20:2848560
From Pakistan [26 words]KhanMay 11, 2010 18:2448560
Our dear khan and the Qur'an [88 words]dhimmi no moreMay 12, 2010 19:5248560
Wrong [68 words]KhanMay 13, 2010 20:4948560
sayed in iran [38 words]cyrusJun 30, 2006 10:0548542
Myth of moderate Malaysia [103 words]VijayJun 30, 2006 05:3648512

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