Get your facts straight

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Nov 16, 2006 at 23:32

Pir Sahab has gotten a great many facts wrong in his latest post. Let me make some corrections.

First, you claim:

"But islam believes on Humanity, relationships, care and spirtuality rather than materialism."

Is that why the rich Islamic Saudis and other oil rich Islamic countries are infamous for their decadent and extravagant behavior? If it's about spirituality, then why do they manipulate the oil market in order to create vast wealth for themselves?

You then said:

"Those who are against Islam have always tried to make their own interpretation of Islam. what you said and interpreted about Islam is your own idea. Let me know the name of any well-known intellectual who have gone through a deep study of Islam and finally came to the conclusion that Islam teaches hate and terror."

Please tell me who are the people blowing up cafes full of women and children, flying airplanes into skyscrapers and committing beheadings in the name of Allah? Do you see the Christians taking to the streets, rioting, making death threats, committing arson, and kidnapping innocent people when Christ is parodied or made fun of? Have the Buddhists ever arsoned, murdered, or issued fatwas calling for someone's death for being critical of Buddhism? Are there roving gangs of lawless Talmudic Jews burning cars and committing mayhem over a mere cartoon?

No. All of these atrocities are being done by Muslims in Islamic countries, or in countries where Islam exists in any number.

You then said:

"ISLAM IS THE RELIGION OF PEACE,RELIGION OF NATURE AND THE RELIGION BASED ON LOGIC AND REASONING."

If Islam is the religion of peace, why then is Islam involved in 95% of all wars and conflicts currently going on in the world? It's Islam vs. Christianity, Islam vs. Buddhism, Islam vs. Judaism, Islam vs. Secularism, Islam vs. Hinduism...seeing a trend there yet? In Israel, Chad, Algeria, Bosnia, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Kosovo, Nigeria, Russia, The Philippines, Somalia, Sudan, Thailand, Uganda...how many countries can we name where Islam is involved in rape, murder, torture, suppression of human rights and freedoms, intolerance, and overall barbaric, uncivilized behavior? We see this everywhere Islam plants itself.

Am I missing something? Because I can't seem to find all this "peace" that Islam supposedly embodies.

You further state:

"But the main problem with the west is that the are getting away from their religious beliefs and values.Thats why there is a clash among the westerners and easterners."

If that's true, then why are Muslims emigrating to western countries? Perhaps to escape the cesspool of poverty, slavery, torture, indiscriminate murder, and systemic violence that pervades all Islamic societies? I ask you this point blank...if America is the Great Satan, when why would any Muslim want to go live in the Islamic equivalent of the devil's home? No, the problem is the evil, backwards values of Islam, where rape victims are killed for "dishonor". You do realize, don't you, that the rest of the civilized world looks at things like that and considers is barbaric?

On the subject of alcohol, you wrote:

"According to Islamic point of view a person who uses alcoholic drinks, is cruel to himself."

And in western society as well as Christianity, man has free will. Man gets to decide whether he is "cruel to himself" or not. You seem to be saying that Islam is better because it punishes people for deciding. All that does is create dependent, infantile adults who cannot take responsibility for their own actions.

On top of that, you are dead wrong. Alcohol, in moderation (specifically red wine) has been shown to actually promote heart health, reduce blood pressure, etc. It's hardly being "cruel to oneself" to drink moderately.

You also confuse the issue here:

"As science has discovered that alcohol is harmful to health. Islam prohibited alcohol 1400 years ago. Is Islam wrong to ban alcoholism in the society?"

Correction...alcohol in excess is harmful to health. So is water and oxygen, and we don't ban those things! Moderate use of alcohol is health promoting. Western society is acutely aware of the societal problems with alcoholism, which is far different than moderate, responsible use of alcohol. In the west we have a sensible approach...you are free to drink in moderation, but alcohol abuse where you endanger others is illegal. As usual, on this issue, Islam takes a radical, over-reactive stance.

You question the Bible next:

"Secondly, does the true teachings of Christianity allows a person to drink? Is it allowed anywhere in Bible?"

Well, Christianity is based in Christ, and I seem to recall Christ multiplying wine for guests at a wedding to drink. What do you think?

You truly highlight Islams' backwards approach to life with this statement:

"When a girl of a women wears dresses showing her body, figures and hair, guys and men are attracted towards her, psychologically.Their sexual desires become strong and either they want to have sex with her or they uses other ways"

So in other words, the man has no responsibility for his actions? It's all the evil woman's fault? Strange, I see women in skimpy clothing all the time here in America and I'm able to control my urges. I don't give in to cheap sex simply because an attractive woman shows some flesh. I'm a human being with reason, not an animal with mere animal instincts controlled by lust. Your argument (the Islamic view) basically relegates men to beast of the field, unable to control their sexual desires.

"What is going on in the western societies, people are unethically busy in homosexuality and even sex with their parents( you cannot deny this fact because various websites developed by the advanced people supports my comments)."

As we say in Christianity, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Perhaps you should look at the homosexuality that's suppressed in Islamic society, the wild drunken orgies with sex slaves, and the permissive attitude towards rape. Pot, meet kettle.

On teen birth, you say:

"The problem of teenage pregnancy is considerably worse in the United States than in almost any other developed country. U.S has one of the highest birth rates for women under 20."

Funny, I'm looking at the year 2002 statistics for various countries. The number of teen births (age 15-19) for the USA was 53.0 per 1,000 women.

Islamic Afghanistan has a whopping 111 teen births per 1,000 women, more than TWICE the rate in the USA. Both Egypt and Rwanda (Islamic) had a score of 50, which is right up there on par with America's rate. Niger, another Islamic country, scored a whopping 233! Islamic Somalia had a score of 213 per 1,000 women. Predominantly Muslim Sierra Leone had a score of 212, Chad had a score of 195, etc. Islamic Egypt compares at 47, very close to the USA number. Four of the top ten scores for teen births belonged to totally or predominantly Muslim countries, and those scores were 4 times the rate of the USA.

Try getting your facts straight.

You then come up with this claim:

"The sexual harassment issue prevailing in the western work place.why?? the Fornication,Adultery,Sodomy,Incest, Bigamy and Prostitutions are common in the western societies.Is this a real picture of a developed and civilized society."

My reply would be...do you consider a religion that stones rape VICTIMS to death in order to restore family "honor", a religion that advocates the raping of adolescent virgins so that they are legally allowed to be hung for minor "crimes", a religion that tolerates sex slavery, a religion that endorses suicide bombings to be "civilized"?

Your next claim is also unfounded:

"But when Islam prohibits these evils,you call it aggression?"

We call it aggression when Islam seeks to impose its archaic belief system and barbaric practices on the free world. Islam should feel free to do whatever it wants in its own countries, but it has no business exporting their believers to other countries with different beliefs while condemning the very society to which they emigrate.

Then you drop this absurd bombshell:

"Despite the fact that the eastern societies are poor, under developed and deprived of many necessacities, you will have to accept one thing i.e the Eastern people are more psychological or mentally satisfied than the west. and the Westerners and so-called civilized people are more depressed and more corrupt."

If Islamic countries are so psychologically and mentally balanced, then why do they come unhinged and descend into barbarity at the drop of a hat? Why does Islam promote violence and terrorism, and why then are Muslims leaving Islamic countries in droves in a migration to free western societies if Islamic society is so happy, peaceful, and content?

In reference to WWII, you asked:

"I ask you what was holocaust? who was Hitler either Muslim or Christian? Is there any evidence in the history that any muslim leader had killed 6 million people."

No, Hitler was not Muslim. However, Islam did side with the Nazis in an effort to eradicate an entire race of people. That's historical fact.

More WWII questions from you:

"Why did the front line supporter of Human rights and dignity (U.S) dropped atomic bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing about 240 thousand innocent people.Were those people not human beings? Is this the respect of Human dignity and rights?"

And in doing so, we ended a war that had we not dropped the bomb, would have claimed MILLIONS of more lives. And remember, Japan (along with its Axis allies) attacked us, not vice versa. It's kinda hard to cry "foul" when the person crying is the one who started the conflict.

"What happened with Afghanistan? Who were responsible to make the Taliban regime to fight against Soviet Union. The Taliban while fighting against USSR were propogated by the US as "Jihaadees" fighting for their rights and freedom.But when Soviet Union collapsed and the U.S achieved its targets, then the "Jihaadees" became "terrorists".Isn't it selfishness?"

I actually agree with you there. I don't like how America picks sides, and I'm not saying we're perfect.

I guess you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, because you claim:

"What was 9/11? Some western scholars say that this was not more than a drama... to attack Afghanistan and Iraq."

So you're saying the USA orchestrated those attacks in order to justify going to war? Did the Martians tell you that?

Concerning Iraq and WMDs, you ask:

"Where are the weapons of mass destruction? Did the allied forces found any chemical weapon in Iraq?"

Syria. Yes.

There are your answers. If you read anything other than the mainstream media (which reviles America), you'd be aware of all the proof of weapons we found, and where they where smuggled to during the months before war broke out.

"Without any solid proof ,the supporters of Justice and Human dignity and rights invaded Iraq, killing thousands of innocent civillians? isn't it cruelty?"

Were you crying for justice when Saddam was feeding Muslims into wood chippers feet-first? Or when Saddam gassed thousands of innocent Kurds or murdered millions of Iranians with his chemical weapons?

Another one-sided statement:

"What israel did few months before killing innocent people, killing young children and bombing the civilian residential areas. "

What about all the Muslim killings of innocent people via suicide bombings in cafes, on airplanes, on buses, etc? What about Muslims lobbing rockets into Israel indiscriminately, killing civilians?

"What is going on in Palestine?"

There is no Palestine. There are Palestinian Territories. What's going on there? Obviously, a lot of terror planning!

"Are the authorities of United States blind? or they don't want to see the realities of ground....the tyranny against the Palestinians."

Are you in turn blind to the terror committed by the Palestinians against innocent civilian populations of Jews?

"Irony here is that when the Palestinian responds to the Israili agression,the United states cries out that they are terrorists.'

Let me re-define irony for you. When Israel targets a known terrorist leader who is killing innocent people, and they kill him and there is a bit of collateral damage, the Palestinians call it terrorism and murder, even though the Israelis do their best to avoid any civilian collateral damage. Yet when an Islamic Palestinian terrorist purposely targets a cafe filled with innocent civilian women and children with their murderous suicide vests, the Palestinians celebrate that person as a hero. Are you seeing the true definition of irony?

"If Islam preaches hatred and agression then what you are doing??Islam during its 1400 years has never been agressive and caused heavy mass destruction and inhuman activities."

I see you're in denial of known history as well.

"Infact Islam has fought wars, but our religion doesn't allows us to behave with our prisoners in an inhuman way."

So you don't consider torture, slitting of throats, cutting off of heads and parading burnt and headless corpses of prisoners by Muslims abductors and soldiers as "inhuman"?

"The Westerners donate aids to the poor nations. Yaaahh, America is the biggest donor in the world,"

Yes, and the oil rich Islamic countries are amongst the lowest donors in the world. So much for Islamic generosity!

"Why did America threatened Pakistan and demanded support, otherwise will be attacked and send back to stone ages?"

Perhaps because Pakistan was aiding and abetting terrorists?

"Few months ago, the president of Iran Mahmood Ahmadenejad invited the president Bush to have an open live debate on world issues.But unexpectedly, the US didn't accept the invitation. Why??"

Perhaps because Ahmadenejad is a madman who denies that the Holocaust ever happened, while advocating another one? Civilized people don't debate barbarians, they simply condemn them.

I must say, Pir Sahab, you need to get out more and view reality for a change. You're obviously in denial of a great many facts about our world.

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