reply to"Get your facts straight"

Submitted by Pir Sahab (Bangladesh), Nov 19, 2006 at 13:10

Is that why the rich Islamic Saudis and other oil rich Islamic countries are infamous for their decadent and extravagant behavior? If it's about spirituality, then why do they manipulate the oil market in order to create vast wealth for themselves?

Great. I failed to understand one thing, that why every western is talking about oil oil and oil. do you use to drink oil in place of water. and talking about spirtuality ........... look the Iranian nation .... who are the models of Islamic practices. My dear ..... the saudis manipulate only the oil market because you try to threaten them or you behave in an inhuman way with the developing countries ..... Yes the easterns mostly the muslim countries are rich in oil. but can you tell me Americans are rich in what? America is the largest market and it has the largest arms manufacturing industries. when ever it sees that world is going towards peace. it starts wars or persuades other nations to engage in wars. ( like .. it sold arms to Pakistan.. India.. Iraq in Gulf and the Saudis] as a result US gets money money and more money . So what about that activity of front line supporter of Human rights.

Please tell me who are the people blowing up cafes full of women and children, flying airplanes into skyscrapers and committing beheadings in the name of Allah? Do you see the Christians taking to the streets, rioting, making death threats, committing arson, and kidnapping innocent people when Christ is parodied or made fun of? Have the Buddhists ever arsoned, murdered, or issued fatwas calling for someone's death for being critical of Buddhism? Are there roving gangs of lawless Talmudic Jews burning cars and committing mayhem over a mere cartoon?

If the developed countries became selfish and violated the basic human rights of the poor nations, then no doubt every poor will show agression. I think you are talking about Talibaan..... I have said in earlier comment that America is responsible for talibaan regime and now I will say to Americans...... TIT FOR TAT"

Now , yes in our religion we are told by our God that We should not call bad names for others religion or beliefs, and we should communicate the truth to them in a better and polite way. but if someone defames our religious beliefs then we are ordered to reply. But most of the rioting, kidnapping , murders are parts of US plannings to portray Islam as a religious of hate, aggression and terror.

I accept some of the activities of Islamists but you see every man is not perfect among muslims and even among any person in the world of today { Except Jesus Christ and Imam Mehdi} So, if a muslim commits a sin, It doesn' t mean that Islam tells him to do so. Islam is the religion of Peace ( read my comment " response to biggest joke}.

Now if a muslim commits sin or does against Islamic teachings he will be punished by Allah. You { Christians } believe that your sins will be forgiven . But we believe " unless and untill any one feels ashamed of his sins and then promises not to repeat them again, he will not be forgiven."

If Islam is the religion of peace, why then is Islam involved in 95% of all wars and conflicts currently going on in the world? It's Islam vs. Christianity, Islam vs. Buddhism, Islam vs. Judaism, Islam vs. Secularism, Islam vs. Hinduism...seeing a trend there yet? In Israel, Chad, Algeria, Bosnia, India, Indonesia, Iraq, Kosovo, Nigeria, Russia, The Philippines, Somalia, Sudan, Thailand, Uganda...how many countries can we name where Islam is involved in rape, murder, torture, suppression of human rights and freedoms, intolerance, and overall barbaric, uncivilized behavior? We see this everywhere Islam plants itself.

Am I missing something? Because I can't seem to find all this "peace" that Islam supposedly embodies.

Islam is the religion of peace. The characteristics of a True Muslim is that he never takes initiative in any agression or war. We believe that All people of the globe are human and have equal rights. But when ever any one has tried to attack on us and tried to threaten us or becomes dangerous for our sovereinty, we fight with him. ( This is our right to defend our selves) Islamic teachings tells to adopt defensive strategy always. You know " Self defense is natures oldest law".

But what about the Christians who fought wars against Jews ( Holocaust and other holy wars). Who fought wars against communists( against Russians). who fought wars against Hindus (in the sub continent) who fought wars against Islam( history is full of those till now...not need to mention)

If that's true, then why are Muslims emigrating to western countries? Perhaps to escape the cesspool of poverty, slavery, torture, indiscriminate murder, and systemic violence that pervades all Islamic societies? I ask you this point blank...if America is the Great Satan, when why would any Muslim want to go live in the Islamic equivalent of the devil's home? No, the problem is the evil, backwards values of Islam, where rape victims are killed for "dishonor".

Islam tells us to get knowledge from any where. we come there for the sake of knowledge. do you remember those days when Europe burnt the Islamic libraries, stole many noble books and killed many islamic scholars. Not all American people are Satan, they are nice people. But the true satan is the authorities and those who show agression towards poor nations and who portray Islam as a evil for the sake of their own selfish interests. we come there to get knowledge ( i accept) and to defend ourselves and to tell the American people that we are not terrorists,, we are not barbarians,,, we are not evil,,, we are not threat to the innocent people but threat to the falsehood.

You do realize, don't you, that the rest of the civilized world looks at things like that and considers is barbaric?

if you look at things that are considered as barbaric and if you attempt to put the evil or barbarian to an end, then first of all put the Israeli govt to an end which is showing tyranny against the innocent palestinians in their own land,, which shows aggresson and has dropped cluster missiles on the innocent lebanese men, women and children. instead of punishing Israel on its barbaric activities you are supporting it . Why??

And in western society as well as Christianity, man has free will. Man gets to decide whether he is "cruel to himself" or not. You seem to be saying that Islam is better because it punishes people for deciding. All that does is create dependent, infantile adults who cannot take responsibility for their own actions.

My dear listen carefully........... if man is free to do any thing.. then why it was necessary to send messengers of God ( If you are christian and believe in bible Jesus Christ and God then I am very dishearted by that comment ). if man is free and has no limitations and no one can direct his acitivities then why Jesus Christ came with Bible to adress the people. listen .. when ever man will become free to do any thing and if there will be no doctrine to adress and direct his activities then there will be evils in the world ... every one will try to blow his own trumpet. at last my dear if every one has free will then why America is killing so many innocents ,, why you are bombing in homes where parents are there along with their infant children... ohhhhhhhh if man is free then keep silence and let others to do their own and let what is going on in this world....why are you interfering in the sovereignty of poor nations ( see my other comments"response to biggest joke)

On top of that, you are dead wrong. Alcohol, in moderation (specifically red wine) has been shown to actually promote heart health, reduce blood pressure, etc. It's hardly being "cruel to oneself" to drink moderately.

you accepted that even hardly but it is being cruel to oneself. Yet Islam say not cruel to your self hardly or softly...

Correction...alcohol in excess is harmful to health. So is water and oxygen, and we don't ban those things! Moderate use of alcohol is health promoting. Western society is acutely aware of the societal problems with alcoholism, which is far different than moderate, responsible use of alcohol. In the west we have a sensible approach...you are free to drink in moderation, but alcohol abuse where you endanger others is illegal. As usual, on this issue, Islam takes a radical, over-reactive stance.

Islam say what ever is harmful to society is prohibited. My dear.... you accepted alcohol in excess is harmful. Now, you see in the society not 100% people take wine at a moderate level. surely may be 20% ok 10% . let 's suppose 5% people are those ( as we hear or read in news) who take access of alcohol, as a result they start abusing others, misbehaving and road accidents etc etc. Now Islam knows that thing ,,that if alcohol will not be prohibited then people will start using it in access, as according to human nature is " if something has no ban to use,, we take it in excess, thats why Islam bans to use it. secondly for your kind information, islam prohibits excess of drink and food by the following verses.

[7.31] O children of Adam! Attend to your embellishments at every time of prayer, and eat and drink and be not extravagant; surely He does not love the extravagant.

Well, Christianity is based in Christ, and I seem to recall Christ multiplying wine for guests at a wedding to drink. What do you think?

I think you are on the wrong way .. sorry to say.. please read the letters of " Barnabas Saint" which you will get from the Vatican city. I think true Christianity is not preached to you. So sad...Jesus Christ ( may peace be upon him) has never drunk.

So in other words, the man has no responsibility for his actions? It's all the evil woman's fault? Strange, I see women in skimpy clothing all the time here in America and I'm able to control my urges. I don't give in to cheap sex simply because an attractive woman shows some flesh. I'm a human being with reason, not an animal with mere animal instincts controlled by lust. Your argument (the Islamic view) basically relegates men to beast of the field, unable to control their sexual desires.

Sorry! you couldn' understand my statement. Man is in fact responsible and he will be punished if he commits a sin, but women will also be punished. My dear... Islam is the relgion of human nature .. it knows nature.. and then decides.. ok, if you don;t accept Islamic point of view then what about the psychoanlytic theory of Sigmund Fried who says that the basic requirement of human is sex and he feels jelousy to his own father, and daughter feels jelousy to her mother during childhood. please read that theory which is written by a western ( not by Islamists) then you will come to know that human ( man and women) both have desires and when women shows her body figures, the desires of man are not controlled.. as a result social problems!!!!

As we say in Christianity, "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Perhaps you should look at the homosexuality that's suppressed in Islamic society, the wild drunken orgies with sex slaves, and the permissive attitude towards rape. Pot, meet kettle.

I couldn't understand the line "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Any way the west is responsible for that. The strong media and communication and movies have played a vital role here. As I said the human nature is that man seeks sex either he is a muslim or a non-muslim. That's why Islam being the universal religion ( as Islam is not the religion for only muslims) bans that evil.

Funny, I'm looking at the year 2002 statistics for various countries. The number of teen births (age 15-19) for the USA was 53.0 per 1,000 women.

Islamic Afghanistan has whopping 111 teen births per 1,000 women, more than TWICE the rate in the USA. Both Egypt and Rwanda (Islamic) had a score of 50, which is right up there on par with America's rate. Niger, another Islamic country, scored a whopping 233! Islamic Somalia had a score of 213 per 1,000 women. Predominantly Muslim Sierra Leone had a score of 212, Chad had a score of 195, etc. Islamic Egypt compares at 47, very close to the USA number. Four of the top ten scores for teen births belonged to totally or predominantly Muslim countries, and those scores were 4 times the rate of the USA.

The statistic, which I have taken, is from web " So ask those people. Don't quarrel with me. Any way do you know Islam says " held the marriages of your children before the age of 20. Why? Why Islam says so………. Because as I said above Islam knows that human has the need for sex, so if he/she doesn't held marriage soon after the age of 15 he may commit sins (like rape, and other forms illegal and unethical sex). So these countries follow the rules of Islam. But in US the below 20 teenage pregnancy is not because of marriages ,but because of illegal and unethical sexual relationships and intercourse which further causes social problems (as you agree).

My reply would be...do you consider a religion that stones rape VICTIMS to death in order to restore family "honor", a religion that advocates the raping of adolescent virgins so that they are legally allowed to be hung for minor "crimes", a religion that tolerates sex slavery, a religion that endorses suicide bombings to be "civilized"?

Listen dear… Islam stresses on punishment? I would add another example along with the above examples that Islam orders to cut the hands of the thief. Why? Again question is why? Because Islam is the religion which knows human nature. Human being if not punished on his sins always tries to attempt the sin again. So Islam stresses on punishment. But here on thing to clear that Islam forgives if a person from the bottom of his heart promises not to repeat the blunder again.

Yes I should accept honestly and we condemn the killing of innocent people by suicide bombing but please just think why any body kills himself along with other people ……… because if he is suppressed or somebody is violating his rights. Obviously the US along with the aliens is suppressing the rights of those people. And not only muslims are suicide bombers but if you go through history the first suicide bomber belongs to "Tamil Tigers" of Sri lanka" not a muslim.

We call it aggression when Islam seeks to impose its archaic belief system and barbaric practices on the free world. Islam should feel free to do whatever it wants in its own countries, but it has no business exporting their believers to other countries with different beliefs while condemning the very society to which they emigrate.

Islam is the religion of peace but the west has barbaric activities. Any way muslims are not exporting their beliefs in west but they perform their own activities. The western society I( if it allows human to do any activity according to his belief and will) should not resist muslims from their prayers, and muslim women from taking Hijaab(Scarfs)

If Islamic countries are so psychologically and mentally balanced, then why do they come unhinged and descend into barbarity at the drop of a hat? Why does Islam promote violence and terrorism, and why then are Muslims leaving Islamic countries in droves in a migration to free western societies if Islamic society is so happy, peaceful, and content?

See my previous comments. My dear…. you are enforcing me to repeat again and again. Who promotes violence and terrorism? Who made the Taliban? Wasn't it US? Who has bombed the innocent women and children in Lebanon? Who attacked the Iraq without any solid proof? Who is now threatening a sovereign country (Iran) which does not accept their interference in its country). Muslims are coming to west, as I said earlier just for the sack of knowledge (and our religion stresses on it).

No, Hitler was not Muslim. However, Islam did side with the Nazis in an effort to eradicate an entire race of people. That's historical fact.

Never, Islam was against Nazis and has never done any side. In fact, the Muslims their selves were afraid of the brutalities of Hitler.

And in doing so, we ended a war that had we not dropped the bomb, would have claimed MILLIONS of more lives. And remember, Japan (along with its Axis allies) attacked us, not vice versa. Its kind a hard to cry "foul" when the person crying is the one who started the conflict.

I couldn't understand how if you didn't dropped the bomb would have claimed millions of more lives. But I understand one thing that the who ever has dropped the bomb on innocent civilians children and women, is very cruel. Then the irony is that the bomber then declares himself as the front line supporter of human rights. If you want to drop any bomb then drop it on the army headquarters and destroy arms and ammunition. Why are you killing innocent civilians … this shows your brutality that you have no value of human lives.

I guess you're a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, because you claim:

I am not a conspiracy theorist but your own people are.

There are your answers. If you read anything other than the mainstream media (which reviles America), you'd be aware of all the proof of weapons we found, and where they where smuggled to during the months before war broke out.

I watch BBC and CNN. Those channels said there was no any solid proof of weapons of mass destruction. Similarly the US govt has accepted that the CIA information regarding chemical weapons was not based on true facts. I think you read the newspaper published by your own agency and watch your personal channel. If you find and saw those weapons then where are they now? And why after seeing them you allowed any body to smuggle, is another queation?

Were you crying for justice when Saddam was feeding Muslims into wood chippers feet-first? Or when Saddam gassed thousands of innocent Kurds or murdered millions of Iranians with his chemical weapons?

Yes of course. It was brutality but come to the point, who gave Saddam weapons of mass destruction? Not was It US. who gave those weapons to Saddam to attack Kurds and Iranians because Iranians were against US. Please don't ask stupid questions. My dear you did the same thing with Saddam as you did with Talibaan (i.e put the tissue paper in the dustbin after cleaning the nose.)

What about all the Muslim killings of innocent people via suicide bombings in cafes, on airplanes, on buses, etc? What about Muslims lobbing rockets into Israel indiscriminately, killing civilians?

You are repeating the same thing. The Hezbollah rockets were the response to the Israeli aggression dear. Muslim don;t initiate in agression they always strike back.

There is no Palestine. There are Palestinian Territories. What's going on there? Obviously, a lot of terror planning!

Not terror planning but fighting for their freedom and territories. But the actual terrorist is. …Israeli army killing innocent civilians daily.

Let me re-define irony for you. When Israel targets a known terrorist leader who is killing innocent people, and they kill him and there is a bit of collateral damage, the Palestinians call it terrorism and murder, even though the Israelis do their best to avoid any civilian collateral damage. Yet when an Islamic Palestinian terrorist purposely targets a cafe filled with innocent civilian women and children with their murderous suicide vests, the Palestinians celebrate that person as a hero. Are you seeing the true definition of irony?

Wow .....Israelis do their best to avoid any civilians. Very funny. The world is not blind dear. Who is being killed by Israeli army daily? Are the young children and women are terrorists who are gunned down by the Israelis.

I see you're in denial of known history as well.

Never. I accept if there is any brutality made by the Muslims and I condemn them too.

Yes, and the oil rich Islamic countries are amongst the lowest donors in the world. So much for Islamic generosity!

And you are looking and have lust to occupy these oil- riched territories.

Perhaps because Pakistan was aiding and abetting terrorists?

Ok then Pakistan was aiding and abetting the same terrorist when they were fighting against Soviet Union. Why didn't you threaten them at that time and why supported them?

Perhaps because Ahmadenejad is a madman who denies that the Holocaust ever happened, while advocating another one? Civilized people don't debate barbarians, they simply condemn them.

And you are accepting that Holocaust had happened and the Christians tried to clean the globe from the Jews. Good civilized people don't debate barbarians. Then why you people are making requests to Iran and Syria to involve in the Iraq crisis and help the west. Why president Clinton and his daughter discussed with Iranians and Clinton's daughter wished to know about Islam and a copy of Holly Quran was send to her from Iran. Why you are sending IAEA and other sources to negotiate with Iranians? So sad of the double cross policies of the civilized nations.

I must say, Pir Sahab, you need to get out more and view reality for a change. You're obviously in denial of a great many facts about our world.

And you too dear.

However I accept most of the brutalities of the muslim in the history. But what is now going today is totally the tyranny, selfishness and brutality of the westerners. Any how ofcourse muslims have commited sins but not islam has allowed them to do so. You directly blame on Islam, that is not right. We say the westerners are wrong and are terrorists( of course they are) but we never blamed that the Holly Bible or Torah teaches these evils and never Holly Quran teaches so. So please change this misconception and don't blame Islam and Quran. Infact, Islam and Quran will never change till the end of the world because it is not in our books but in our hearts.

Any discussion starts from thesis, anti-thesis and then finally synthesis. If you have any complain about Quran and Islam then tell me and don't blame them. But you can blame the Muslims because not every one is perfect nor among Muslims, Jews, Budhists, Hindus, communists and Christianity.

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