Daniel Redmond -You aren't "listening" to what I'm saying

Submitted by Steve Risher (United States), Jan 12, 2008 at 19:36

My being Christian has nothing to do with it Daniel. Your facts were and are wrong. My "ire" has everything to do with statements passed off as historical fact. That and that what you said was off-topic. However, since we're here and since "danielpipes.org" has chosen to let the discussion run, I give you the following:

In 1776, Patrick Henry wrote this "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religious, but on the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been afforded freedom of worship here."

Thomas Jefferson wrote on the front of his well-worn Bible: "I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our Creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also."

George Washington, the Father of our Nation, in his farewell speech on September 19, 1796: "It is impossible to govern the world without God and the Bible. Of all the dispositions and habits that
lead to political prosperity, our religion and morality are the indispensable supporters. Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that our national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."

John Adams, our second president, who also served as chairman of the American Bible Society. In an address to military leaders he said, "We have no government armed with the power capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and true religion. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."

As I stated: It has nothing whatever to do with my Christianty; It has everything to do with THEIRS. Historical facts, Daniel....sorry!

The original English settlers of this country were not fleeing other Christians. They left England because it had a specific "brand" of Christianity imposed by the state. "State" religions are typically run by whoever runs the country. Change leaders and the nuances of the state doctrine change. They didn't want that. They had seen and experienced it. They came here to celebrate and exercise their Christianity. Fast-forward to the framers. They understood this very issue and wanted to insure 2 things. 1. That in intent, in law and in practice, this would be a Christian Nation, and 2. That the government could NEITHER mandate a state denomination within Christianity (ie-impose state religion) NOR prohibit religion from being practiced.

The intent (even the Constitution itself) has been so warped and twisted by athiest (and misguided christians) pronouncements about "separation of church and state", that many people now actually believe that it is true and it exists. It (separation of church and state) is factually erroneous, a non-starter, it doesn't exist except in the mind of those wish it didn't and will do and say what ever it takes to try to make it go away! Mis-stating the facts, mis-stating history, making up stuff because it fits your way of thinking...that's what gets me going. If you're going to argue or debate this stuff, at least argue facts. Don't be making up things. But you don't have to believe me, Daniel. But do the research; quote facts not desires.

None of this discussion has anything to do with Barack Obama being or not being Muslim or when. That would be the other reason for my "terse" response. FYI Webster has as one definition of terse ----"brusque" which is "to be BLUNT often to the point of ungraciousness". I believe my response fit that definition, unless you plan to use some other definition, which I have no control over.

Having said all that; Daniel, I wasn't here to debate in the first place, nor am I now, so I bid you adieu. I hope your life goes well and I pray (oh yeah) that some day you "get the message", preferably before you pass on.

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