What you say! What, you say? "What" you say. What you[muslims] say.

Submitted by Fred Izenberger (United States), Jul 1, 2008 at 19:30

> Fred. I asked you what YOU thought Obama meant by his statement.

Nope. You asked me (from Here you go)

--> So, Fred. What do YOU think he is saying?

You dint ask me what I thought he meant, you asked me what I thought he was saying. A subtle distinction. It is usually possible to tell what someone said; sometimes harder to tell what they meant. If I did not answer, it was simply because of the fact that what you wrote, he did not say. Therefore, your question was meaningless.

> I gave you what I thought he meant in the brackets -- which should have been patently obvious to you -- but instead of anwering my question, you falsely call me a liar for voicing an opinion.

Nope, wrong again. You wrote (from I've done the research)

--> Obama said, "I will stand with the Muslims if the winds of change get ugly."

Note the glaring abundance of no brackets. Go to any newspaper in the country, left-wing, right-wing, no-wing, chicken-wing, and ask them what it means to put a statement in quotes and attribute it to someone. There is an imperative implication of what lies between those quotation marks. Does we really hasta s'plain it to ya?

I did not respond to the content of anything you said. Frankly, at the time, I was not concerned about what he meant, because, what you wrote was NOT what he said. I neither affirmed nor disputed the meaning of the content, nor the interpretation of the content. I disputed the content. Period. Full stop.

The content was wrong. Incorrect. False. How much more simply can I put it Doc?

> In that speech, Obama mentioned 9/11, Arab-Americans, Pakistani-Americans, and racial sterotyping, all in one fell swoop, and by your logic, what all these things have in common is only the "hyphen Americans" referenced.

Well, it is demonstrably more accurate than the word you used. I personally know an Arab-American that is an atheist. He is, by definition, an American. But you claim he is a Muslim. By whose logic?

> So, your argument is that I should have put only the specific "hyphen Americans" references in the brackets that I put there (and indicated were mine).

My argument is that when you put something between quotation marks and attribute it, and you knowingly substitute your own words in that quotation, that is journalistic dishonestly. Know colloquially around here as a Lie. It is possible to quote accurately, and then give your interpretation. That would have been fine. Had you done that, I would not even have responded to your post at all. Look at the hundreds of posts on this same subject that I have not responded to at all. I singled yours out for one simply reason. It contained a blatant prevarication.

> You want everyone here to believe that Obama had absolutely no thought about MUSLIMS being the victims of discrimination after 9/11

Nope. Just wanted to point out that you deliberately misquoted him.

> Is that your final answer, Fred? Really?

My final answer is that when you lie, anything else you have to say, no matter how valuable it might ultimately be, is worthless to me. I'm not looking to knock your opinions about the man. I'm just pointing out that I don't value the opinions of someone who will lie to support their opinions. If your opinions are so good, they should not need a lie to prop them up and make 'em look pretty. Did you lie? You wrote something that was not true, and you knew it was not true. What do you call that where you were brought up?

My final answer is, I hate lying. Don't care much for ignorance either. Unrepentant ignorant lying, that's the worst.

Fred

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