Reply to Nazia, you are right Nazia and Don, There is no big difference in what you are saying

Submitted by Allonahhob (Canada), Sep 24, 2005 at 17:17

"Don, To correct you, there is a heaven and a hell, reward and punishment throughout the Old Testament and New Testament...-just as it is in the Quran "

You are right Nazia, there is heaven and hell in Christianity, approach to heaven and hell in Christianity is different than what it is in Islam"

" God is the lord of the universe that may accommodate billions of earths, and creatures like us (our limited human brains cannot even imagine the limits of the universe, let alone imagining the lord, maker of all the billions of galaxies in the universe), that is why in the Quran (6:103) describes God as "no vision can encompass Him, but He encompasses all visions."

You are also right Nazia; some of GOD's characters are what you have described..

You believe that JESUS is Roh Allah, that GOD loved Jesus so much, that Jesus made so many miracles most importantly is defeating death and bringing people out from death to life, you believe also that JESUS is the only sinless person in the history of humanity and you believe that his birth was a miracle from "Sitna Myryam" Holly Mary mother of Jesus. You believe that Jesus will come at the end of the world to judge the living and the dead; you believe that Marry is the holiest woman in the history of humanity.

I don't see much difference in what we both believe. The word Jesus is son of GOD does not mean that GOD was married and had a son, we Christian believe that GOD almighty is the creator and was not created, the same as you do.

We both agree that there is nothing impossible in the way of GOD almighty, In Christianity we believe in Trinity, the father the son and the Holy Spirit all in one GOD. It doesn't mean that we believe in 3 or 2 GODs nor it means that GOD delivered a baby. We believe in ONE GOD who is capable of having three identities, it is like the heat and the light that are identities of the Sun. another example is like three joints in one finger.

Jesus who we both believe that never delivered a fake message to humanity, revealed the trinity fact to us through his life and through the new testaments. This fact was revealed in the Old Testament thousands of years before Christ.

Can anyone in the world explain the secrets of life, birth and death are something that no human brain can understand, however they are fact, the same with trinity, and JESUS identity, it is maybe hard to understand but it doesn't make it false.

"The pagans before Jesus the son of man in the attempt to imagine God debased the Almighty in the form of statues, paintings etc , as most Christians are doing now. "

You are not right, Christians do not worship status, I do not have to proof this, and we simply do not worship status. I would like to provide an example though, status or pictures in Christianity are similar to the concept of having someone's picture in your house and you miss this person you simply kiss the picture, it doesn't mean that you worship the picture, it means that you love the person who is represented by the picture".

"It is quite ironic that you speak of love. If He is a fair God, He should not love Hitlers, Bin Ladens, Stalins, Maos etc"

GOD's LOVE is beyond words, if GOD want to treat us fairly then all of humanity should go to hell, none of us deserve to go to heaven; we go to heaven only through GOD's love and mercy. No one came to earth had the power to know who is really going to heaven except Jesus When the thief on Jesus' right hand ask him for forgiveness for his sins, Jesus assured the thief that he will be in heaven with him.

As human we can't decide whether GOD loves or hates a person, Jesus gave us so many examples about GOD's love and fairness, one of the examples is like a father who has several sons and daughters some of them are really good and some aren't, the father will always try to search for the lost ones until they are back to his loving house, if they chose not to be back then it is their choice. And those people who choose not to be example of GODs love then it is up to GOD who goes to heaven and who to go to hell.

We have also to remember that our justice system is not the same as GOD justice system. Jesus asked people not to judge in order not to be judged. Jesus said before you look at the sin of your fellow human, look at this sin of yours, because if you have mercy to humanity GOD will treat you in mercy. Jesus also emphasized about the existence of heaven and hell, reward and punishment.

". It is also systematically hypocritical that whereas Christians are the ones that mostly speak of love and tolerance, they are also the ones who have killed more human beings than followers of any other Religions in the world and they are doing it even right now. Think of it statistically over the last century.
Or rather don't go that far into history, just take a look at some of the postings right here on Mr. Pipes website, and you will see the hatefulness, bigotry, intolerance of your fellow ...Christians. "

You are absolutely right; there is no justification whatsoever to be violent neither in the bibles nor in Jesus' life. The message of Jesus was very clear through his life and throughout the bibles "love each other as much as I love you" "love your enemy as much as you love your self". Any war or killing in the name of Christ has no justification and no credibility. Crusaders whether they were politically right or wrong had no right to put the cross and fight in the name of Christ. It is important though not to mix the war in Iraq with Christianity, any war going on today is purely political and can not be compared with the history of crusaders and can not be linked to Christianity

"The almighty did show his love for his creatures when true Moslems (not the misguided ones you see today) toppled two pagan superpowers of the time out of nowhere – the Romans and the Persians. And He did show his love during the Crusades. Even now remember it is premature to judge. "

Although I don't believe that this is true, I can't argue with it, Jesus said do not judge so you will not be judged.

And as far as "he demonstrated his love through the person of Christ is concerned…" , I tell you, I never punish my son for what his brother did and this is exactly what your version of Christianity is all about. This atonement argument is not only a blasphemy to the Almighty (both in Judaism and Islam), but is also intellectually nonsense and morally troubling. And regarding God manifesting himself in Flesh, then all the prophets before and after Jesus (Moses, David, Solomon, and Mohammed etc) should also have been "God in flesh". God sent messengers from among human beings; He did not come down himself.

GOD did not punish Christ for the sins of the world, Jesus was willingly accepted the crucifixion to show his love toward humanity, In Quran you believe that GOD replaced Jesus with Judith and brought Jesus to heaven, if Jesus indeed accepted that someone else would die on behalf of him then all of Jesus' teachings are wrong.

7000 years before Christ, all prophets predicted Jesus miraculous birth, his death and most importantly his resurrection. The main idea behind Jesus birth, death and resurrection, is that to proof the defeat of the death (which is the sin) and as a sign for GOD's love to humanity. Jesus in his human identity proofed to humanity that sin can be defeated, that humans are capable of unconditional love. You can compare this to a person who scarifies his life in order to preserve other human life; it is like someone who is willingly go to a building in fire in order to rescue someone else's life, Which is the only kind of martyr that Christianity believes in.

THE CREED OF NICAEA
"We believe in one God the Father, Almighty, maker of all things visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, begotten of the Father, …(The History of Christianity, a Lion handbook, p. 177). As soon as you read their first declaration, you see there is a problem: one God and one Lord (1+1=2)

I have answered this in a previous paragraph

"You see, you dropped the crucial word "fight back" which changes the meaning of this verse completely. Everybody has a right to fight back when he is attacked, the closest example that comes to my mind is when the US was attacked on September 11, almost all the world (and majority of Americans) agreed that US should retaliate, but little did they know that they were unwittingly following the above Quranic verse."

Yes you are right; every one has the right to fight for his right or to fight back when he is threatened. The difference is how we fight back; it is very clear in the bible and in Jesus life that there is no justification for killing whatsoever.

On other subjects that you seem to be confused I will get back to you inshallah, as I am running short of time. One last thing, I was wrong about Mutakaberin. Due to its English transliteration I had read it "Mukhtarin" which means independent. But you are still wrong about its meaning. It does not mean "proud", but it means Greatest. To settle this once and for all Mutakaberin is derivative of the word KABEER, TAKBEER, MUTAKABIR, and they all mean the Most Great or Most powerful. for your info, I don't need to go to some Chrisian web pages to check on Arabic words, I know Arabic grammar inside out.

Love is the biggest word of all, is the word that can combine all 99 names you have in Quran. BTW I am Arabic and I read the Quran in its Arabic origin, I read the hadith, Sirat Alnabi, Islams history, etc.

Mutakaber means someone who is Conceded. Great means in Arabic "Atheem"

GOD bless you all

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