Final Reply to Sue...

Submitted by don (India), Oct 6, 2005 at 08:09

Dear Sue
Thanks for your reply. Here are my replies to you.(No need to reply, if don't want too)

"people take it for granted to critisize Islam, while muslims could do the same"

ANSWER:
Have you ever wondered why Islam is not critiszed openly. Do you know why? people are critisizing Islam only through the internet. For example, i have many issues against Moahmmed. Do you think i can openely critisze Mohammed publicly? you can say anything about Christianity and still walk free. Are you blind to see that? you speak of "islam gives freedom of faith and speech!".
Those who cristicized Islam openly have lost their lives and others are living a terrorized and unpeaceful life (so much from the religion of peace). Only TRUTH can stand critisizm.

"If u think it was an attack, then maybe it's because you see it a negative thing having to sacrifice your own son to save the people??"

ANSWER:

If someone sacrificed his life for me, it shows how much the person loves me. How can i see it as negative? Do you have freedom fighters in your country who sarificed ther life for their beloved people, for their country and for the future generation? Do you see them as negative? Giving yourself as a sacrifice is not a negative thing.
Have you ever wondered why peole all over the world adore Mahatma Gandhi? Mahatma Gandhi would not be loved by the whole world had he got his freedom by slaughtering and killing the British. He would be loved, only by his fellow country men.He followed the Christ way. While Gandhi is adored by people all over the world and by every generation, Mohammed on the other hand is loved only by his fellow Muslims.It seems foolish to keep quiet or to turn the other cheek, but it is divine. Ordinary human beings will like to retaliate and slap the person back, but forgiveness is divine. That is Godly virtue. Mahatma Gandhi and Mohammed are two totally differnt beings. If the biography of Gandhi and Mohammed (His asassinations, looting, rape and incest as in the Hadith) are narrated to anyone, they will automatically get attracted to Gandhi and not Mohammed.Only the unselfish, 'self' denying beings are worthy of praise. The jewel of Africa, Nelson Mandel is another example, of how great people can endure great sacrifices to show much they love their people and country. Gandhi and Mandela are the 'replica' of Jesus Christ.
Through the Islamic history, there is no prominent figure how followed, the "turn the other cheek" way. Starting from Mohammed, Abu Bakar, Ali all of them are die-hard "an eye for an eye" belivers. They have always been the SARIFICERS and not the sacrificed. Sacrificing yourself as a sign of love is hence an odd thing to Muslims. The sacrifice of Jesus does not make me negative, instead it shows me, to what extent my Lord can go to show me his love for me.

"The ancient arabs (Muhammad's father or the others) didn't worship a God called 'Allah' they worshiped statues called 'Ellat and Elluzza' and some other things.

ANSWER:

Allah was a pre-existing god. He was well known to Muhammad's Quraysh tribe. Scholars quickly point out that Allah was one of the names used for the MOON god who was married to the sun goddess. Together they produced three goddesses who were called "the daughters of Allah. Their names were Al-Lat, Al-Uzza and Manat. These were considered high gods--at the top of the plethora of Arabian deities. Muhammad's father's literal Arabic name was Abd-Allah (SLAVE OF ALLAH). His uncle's name was Obied-Allah. His family was devoted to the moon god for at least two generations before Muhammad. The Arabian pagans prayed towards Mecca because that is where their idols/gods were sitting. Since Allah was one of the idols in the Kabah it only made sense to turn toward their god and pray. Praying toward Mecca continues to this day.


"So could you get me one thing in the Quran talking about this pagan God????"

ANSWER:

How can Moahmmed say his God is a pagan god? Allah was already worshipped by the Qureshis, and Mohammed, insprired by the monotheism of Judaish and Christianity surrounding him, wanted to preach to his people that God is one.
However there is one instance where Mohammed mentioned the pagan gods.
While Muhammad was in Mecca, his followers were few, his movement grew painfully slowly and he, too, felt the pain of estrangement from his tribe. According to early and treasured biographical and historical accounts of Muhammad, authored by competent Muslim scholars (such as writings of at-Tabari and Ibn Sa'd), Muhammad longed for better relations and reconciliation with his community. Thereafter, the accounts continue, God revealed Surah 53 to Muhammad up to and including vss. 19, 20. These two verses read:

Have ye thought upon al-Lat and al-Uzza
And Manat, the third, the other? (53:19,20)

Then, originally, the verses (known today as the satanic verses) followed:

These are the exalted cranes (intermediaries)
Whose intercession is to be hoped for.

The cranes whose intercession was recognized were, of course, the three deities. The same accounts tell us that after this revelation was completed, Muhammad, his followers and the pagan Arabs all prostrated. Tensions eased, reconciliation was at hand, and all were delighted.
But Muhammad soon retracted the reconciliation—how soon is not clear. For the account continues that Jibril (Gabriel), the angel of revelation, informed Muhammad that Satan had used Muhammad's desire for reconciliation with the pagan leaders to insert into the revelation of God the verses about the interceding cranes, otherwise called "the satanic verses". The verses which follow, not the satanic verses, serve as the proper sequence to 53:19,20 (above):
The famous traditionalist Tabari wrote, (Annals, vol I,3, p. 1192), "When the Quraish heard these verses, they were full with a great joy, and they prostrate themselves, Muslims and non Muslims."


"Give me one prove that the Bible or the Torah are true. I don't have any prove till now"

ANSWER:
As i have answered you in my previous post, i don't like to prove the word of God by scientific formulas. When i read the Holy Bible, i don't serach for scientific formulas, or discoveries. If i want science, i go to science books. It is Muslims, who since their book is devoid of any miracles and prophecies who try to prove to us by their "unreliable scientific discoveries" in the book.
However since you are so eager to know, and have asked for at least 1 proof, if there is any scientific truth in the Bible i'm obliged to reply to you. Here are some examples.

Isaiah 40:22, "It is he that sitteth upon the CIRCLE OF THE EARTH." How did Isaiah know in 700 B.C. the earth is round? The scientists of Isaiah's day thought the earth was flat. They didn't discover the earth is round until the early 1500s when Magellan sailed around the world. How did Isaiah know something over 2000 years ahead of science?

Job 26:7, ". . . and hangeth the earth upon NOTHING." During the time of Job, it was believed a god named Atlas held the earth on his shoulders! Nobody believed the earth "hangeth upon NOTHING!" Job is the oldest book in the Bible! Written over 3500 years ago! How did Job know something that was IMPOSSIBLE to know during his day?

Genesis 2:7, "And the Lord God formed man of the DUST OF THE GROUND, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul." Surely, you don't take Genesis 2:7 seriously? Do you? November 1982, Reader's Digest had an article titled How Life on Earth Began. It stated that according to scientists at NASA's Ames Research Center the ingredients needed to form a human being can be found IN CLAY. The article said, "The Biblical scenario for the creation of life turns out to be NOT FAR OFF THE MARK."(Reader's Digest, November, 1982 p.116) No, it's "not far off the mark" - it's right on it! Scientists have laughed at the possibility of Genesis having any scientific credibility whatsoever - and yet, the more we learn, the more we find it to be SCIENTIFICALLY CORRECT!

Psalm 8:8, ". . . whatsoever passeth through the PATHS OF THE SEAS." After reading Psalm 8:8, Matthew Maury, a U.S. Naval officer, set out to locate these curious "paths in the seas." He discovered the oceans have paths which flow through them. He became known as the "pathfinder of the seas". How did David (the writer of Psalms) know, over 2,000 years ago, there were "paths in the seas"? David probably never even saw an ocean! HOW DID HE KNOW?

Ecclesiastes 1:7, "All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the water cycle of condensation and evaporation? The sun evaporates water from the ocean, water vapor rises and becomes clouds. This water in the clouds falls back to the earth as rain, collects in rivers, and makes its way back to the ocean. This wasn't known until Galileo in 1630! How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know this in 1000 B.C.? 2500 YEARS AHEAD OF SCIENCE!

Leviticus 15:13, "And when he that hath an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in RUNNING WATER." God said to wash the infected flesh in RUNNING WATER. Science didn't discover that until two men named Pasteur and Koch in the late 1800s. Doctors were washing their hands in a bowl of water and spreading the germs like wild fire. It wasn't until the invention of the microscope and the science of bacteriology that doctors started washing under RUNNING WATER. Leviticus was written around 1490 B.C. SCIENCE WAS ABOUT 3000 YEARS BEHIND! Isn't it embarrassing how science always lags about 2000 years behind that Amazing Book!

Job 38:19, "Where is THE WAY where light dwelleth?" How come Job didn't say where is THE PLACE where light dwelleth? Because light is always moving. How did Job know something in 1500 B.C. that science didn't find out until Einstein? How can the men who wrote that Amazing Book, with their limited scientific knowledge - BE SO FAR AHEAD OF SCIENCE?

Ecclesiastes 1:6, "The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again ACCORDING TO HIS CIRCUITS." How did the writer of Ecclesiastes know the wind traveled within circuits? How did he know something that the aerologists and meteorologists are just now discovering? THINK ABOUT IT! How can these men, with their limited knowledge thousands of years ago, be so far ahead of science?

Proverbs 6:6-8, "Go to the ant. . . gathereth her food in the harvest." Life's Nature Library "The Insects" (p.163) commenting on Proverbs 6 reads, "One of the entomological puzzles of the last century concerned this observation by Solomon. There was no evidence that ants actually harvested grain. In 1871, however, a British naturalist showed that Solomon had been right after all. . ." How did Solomon know that in 1000 B.C.? How did Solomon CLEARLY, detail a scientific FACT, that was IMPOSSIBLE for him to know in 1000 B.C.?

Proverbs 17:22, "A merry heart doeth good like a MEDICINE." An article in The Birmingham News, titled Laughter: Prescription for Health, said, the LATEST medical evidence reveals that, "At some point during laughter, your body issues A PRESCRIPTION from the pharmacy in your brain." How did the writer of Proverbs know that - 3000 YEARS AHEAD OF MEDICAL SCIENCE?

Leviticus 17:11, "For the life of the flesh is in the blood." That's the most accurate, scientific statement ever written about the blood!

- It is the blood that carries on all the life processes of the body.
- It is the blood that causes growth, builds new cells, grows bone and flesh, stores fat, makes hair and nails.
- It is the blood that feeds and supports all the organs of the body. If the blood supply be cut off from an arm, that arm will immediately begin to die and rot.
- It is the blood that repairs the body. It is the blood that clots wounds, that grows new flesh, new skin and even new nerves.
- It is the blood that fights disease. When they give you a vaccine against a disease, they give you a shot into your blood stream.
For thousands of years, doctors treated people by a practice called "bleeding." They thought illnesses could be cured by removing blood. In 1799, less than 200 years ago, George Washington was literally bled to death. They bled poor George four times, the last time they took over a quart of his blood! They didn't know, but they were literally draining away his life by removing his blood. It wasn't until the early 1900's that a man named Dr. Lister discovered that the blood provides the bodies immune system - THE LIFE OF THE FLESH IS IN THE BLOOD!
There are many if you want, i can give you more. But as i told you, i don't like to prove the word of God by scientific discoveries. All the prophecies that are coming true as written in the Holy Bible are enough for me. It is you Mulism who is desperate to try to show the Quran is from God. Can you name for me please any prophcies from Quran that have true?. Bible has prophecies that are coming true even now, in todays life!
By the way, do you know that Quran has described the Earth as flat? This is beacause in olden days people used to belive that the Earth is flat. But see the above Biblical verse, it proved the Earth is round.
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"But it's a very shallow imagination to think that this means they have to go to Haj or pray 5 times a day.
Cause 'Islam' means surrendering=believing in 1 God. We believe that ALL prophets believed in one God, and they came to the people to teach them that."

ANSWER:
According to you Islam= surrendering to 1 God and Muslim= follower of Islam.
If islam means belief or surrundering to 1 God, then in that case even Hinduism is Islam? right? beacuse even Hindus believe there is one supreme God. Likewise, Sikhs also believe there is one God. Are those people Muslims? That makes Hindus and Sikhs also Muslims. right?
Even Jews and Christians believe in 1 God. Are they also muslims? if Jews and Christians are then Muslims, why are not calling them "akhwana Muslmeen"? (Muslim brothers)?
What makes Islam/Muslim is, what they are in the belief of Allah and in Mohammed and all his teachings.


"does this mean that Christians believe that Muslims and Jews and all the other religions are going to Heaven as well??"

ANSWER:

Jesus has come to show us the way to the eternal life.You see Jesus came to show us what the attributes of God are, that's why we call him "God in flesh". You live the Jesus way and you are living God's way. If you are living otherwise, that means you are not living God's way, then how do you expect to be accepted by God if you are not living his way? Those who got this Gospel and rejected his way, will be rejected by God too. As those who lives before Jesus Christ, it is not for me to say. it is for God to judge them.

"The arabic meaning of Messiah, is 'removing' but not that removes sins, but because the Jews have had a very difficult religion with many rules, Jesus the messiah, came to remove...."

ANSWER:

You are absolutely wrong. Messiah means the "anoninted one".. I don't know from where you brought the meaning. Whether it is be Taqiyah or honesty, i'm not surprised, because Muslim by hook or crook, have defend their religion. Even by lies. It is better to say i don't know, than to give to Jesus a title wrongly.
Muslims know Messiah means "anoninted" beacause, they will never say it beacause they will fall into the trap "anointed for what?" in which all the stories of the "Islamic Jesus" wll fall apart. I have asked many Muslims and nonbdoy knows and sometimes give funny answers.
Even your answer dosenot make sense, though you tried to take it from the Bible. According to you, Jewish had many difficult rules so Jesus came to remove some. But then Mohammed comes along and give even more complicated rules as the rules in Islam are more complicated. What is the mission of Jesus then? and can you please tell us what has been changed and waht are your sorces?
Jesus said he didn't come to change any laws but to fulfill them.


"He did not come to remove the sins of the people, because if he did that, then again what's the point of being good anyway? Why not steal and kill and be trouble makers, if someone already removed our sins??"......

ANSWER:

Now i undestand why it is difficult for you to understand the meaning of Jesus' salvation.
So all this time you used to believe cause Jesus dies for our sins we can go and kill, enjoy, murder? This is totally wrong. I will give you an example.
The Bible said Jesus healed the sick and the blind. Even Quran says that. Let's say one blind man was healed. He eyes can see. If the healed man goes and fights or pokes his eye out, waht will be his condition? he will be blind again. right? again let' say Jesus healed the sick. Suppose the sick man goes and abuses himself with alcohol or sexually transmitted disease and becomes sick, won;'t he be sick again? He will reap what he sow. So Jesus healed them but whether they are responsible and keep their body is up to them not upto Jesus.
When our sins are forgiven we are clean. But from that time onward, we should be responsible not to sin again, otherwise we will reap what we sow.
Just coz our sin is takes doesnot mean we can go and murder or enjoy and forget Jesus.

"The Quran is not full of contradictions, it's just the people who are trying to manipulate the meanings to serve their arguments"

ANSWER:

The Quran is ofcourse full of contradiction. I can't list them all here, coz they will take lots of space but if you, just inform me in your reply and i will post them here.

"I am not convinced that a God who is able to forgive, would not be also sacrificing an innocent person who you say never made a sin"

ANSWER:

I understand your situation because in Islam giving yourself as sarifice is a sign of weakness and not meekness.
The sacrifice of Jesus is the ultimate sign of love. It doesnot have to do anything whether God is able to fogive sins just like that or not. Ofcourse he can.
I will give you an example.
There was a certain king. The king was just and upright, but had a son was troublesome. He used to harass the people. The people complained to the king an demanded justice. They brought all the charges and the the punishment for all the citizens was whipping. The king being just agreed and the next morning they he came along with his son. They tied his son for whipping, but before that the king went to his son, hugged him from back and asked them to whip.The lashes went on the king's back and around the son. The king did it as a sign of love of his son, even though his son was a criminal. Is this logic? why did the king, though blamless wanted to protect and get also whipped? is it logic? love is not logic. Don't try to understand the love of Christ too by logic.

Only a sinless person can take away sins. How can a person who is bad can take the sin of others. It will be hypocrisy. It is like a thief teacher, teaching stealing is bad. Who will believe him? same wise, if Jesus is a sinner, how can he take other's sin?


"and unfair to the people who just hung their sins on someone elses life to feel safe and free to do whatever they want to do, now that someone already died for their sins".

ANSWER:
The safety and assurance has come from God. God wants his people to be safe. what's wrong in that? Again i told you, every person whose sin is forgiven is responsible not to sin again. Once you believe that Jesus Christ died for your sins and acknowledge that and accept him, the Holy Spirit will come and "dwell" in you and guide you and comfort you. We are not perfect and still can sin again. But the Holy Spirit convicts you of ur sin and you ask forgivess. You might make mistakes and sin sometimes, but YOU WILL NOT LIVE IN SIN. Sin will be no more your way of life. Slowly, slowly the Holy Spirit guides you in life ups and downs and shapes you to become better and better day by day. This is how God guides you once you surrender to him with full heart and live according to his will. This is Christ called the Born Again peron. This is different from the Muslim way. Muslim say Quran is their guide. But believe me, better than Quran is the Spirit of God. No book with any amount or rules can guide a person completly as the Spirit of God.


"Islam is only responsible for what is written in the Quran"

ANSWER:

Qur'an 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an 66:1 "Allah has already sanctioned for you the dissolution of your vows."

Qur'an 5:41 "Whomever Allah wants to deceive you cannot help. Allah does not want them to know the truth because he intends to disgrace them and then torture them."

Qur'an 13:27 "Say, ‘God leads whosoever He wills astray.'"

Qur'an 5:51 "Believers, take not Jews and Christians for your friends."

It is true Quran is responsible for what it says. Thanks to such kind of verses, we have the whole world in turmoil now.


"it's very interesting about what you wrote how to respect muslims on the street and so on"

ANSWER:

This was done during the khilafat time and it will done too again if Khilafat system comes. Bin laden and other all terrorsist want to bring Khilafat again. That's why the whole world is fighting back against this barbaric rule.


"Besides, i don't also understand why the punishment of sin is death"

ANSWER:

Do you know the story of Adam when God told him "you will surely die....if you eat from the tree..." well as soon as Adam ate it he didn't collapse and die. But he was thrown from the presence of God. Even here it says, you sin and you won;t be next to God. The one with sin is, accursed. But once your sin is forgiven, and reconciled with God, you will be with him in eternal life.


"Why not ask for forgiveness as God tells the muslims and you're forgiven"

ANSWER:

Just saying "i forgive you" with our reconcilation dosenot show any relatioship of love. For exmaple let's say you borrowed some money from many people including me. Let's say the people condemned you and you got arrested. Now which one is better? 1.if i come and say "i forgive you" and walk away from you or 2. if i pay all debt (share/take all your burdens) and take you home and prepare for you a big feast to show my care for u? which one is better? which one shows my love for you? You can't ask why for God's way. For example, can i ask you "why dosenot God just give you heaven like taht? why do u have to pray 5times? zaka?fast? all rituals and sometimes why you have to die in war to go to heaven?,...whay not Allah gie you heaven just like that? can we ask like this?

"can you please explain how girls are not allowed to put their veil in schools in france??"

ANSWER:

France is a secular country like Germay and other EU countries. Wearing religious signs or artifacts is not allowed in school. Even Christians are not allowed to wear big crosses. Even Sikhs are prohobited from wearing turban. They are doing this, coz they don't want religious tension and segregation to arise in schools. You can do your religious rituals or outside. They are treating everyone equal. You should feel for other people too not only for your "muslim brothers". Any way in islam only a muslim is your brother.


"Now tell me where did a christian get prevented of performing his faith by muslims??"

ANSWER:

I will give you one challenge. Can you please go to Saudi Arabia/Iran and wear big cross or Bible in your hand and walk on the road? Please do that and see what will happen to you and come and report to us if we are lying, or go to any Islamic conutry and try to preach the message of Jesus Christ from Bible.

" For example cutting hand of the thief. Almost all muslim countries don't do that, cause as i said, it's not a must do, it was written in Islam to show that a thief made a bad act that deserves this punishement"

ANSWER:
You are totally wrong. It was stopped coz governments realised that it is bad and barbaric. Mohammed cut thieves hands and even legs! read your Hadith properly. But the Holy Bible tells us that, if a person steals he must pay it back as punishment. Property must be replaced by property and not part of a body.
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"So can you tell me about when someone was killed cause he talked badly about God/Allah?"

ANSWER:
I can give you many names, but i will give you 1 famous example. The Dutch film maker Theo van Gogh was assasinated by a crazy muslim fanatic just because he was making films about the plights of women in Islam. Please follow the news there are many many people dieing because of this religion.
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"punishment of sins is death, only that you had someone die for you instead. but it's the same concept!!"

ANSWER:
Not the same concept. Here death is banishment from the presence of God.
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"Besides, have you ever lived in Israel? in India? Lebanaon? In Germany and many many other countries? Please go there and tell us what rights the Muslims have there"

You have been answered to that by a Allenhob. Why don't you reply to her? Have u ever lived urself in those countries? I know Lebanon had majority Christians, but now due to the constant Muslim intimidation, violence and abuse they are migrating to Europe,America and Canada and now majority of Lebanon is Muslim. Have You ever spoken with Lebanese Christains? eveny by chatting? I know how Muslims are livnig there. In Isreal, do you know taht there are many Palestinian Arabs who are happy to live under the Isrealis than under their brother's Palestinians. Read Mr. Pipes article on this. He has an article about it.
India? Muslims suffering in India??? you don't know what you are talking about. I think the happiest people in India are Muslims. Please don't mention India. There is no country like india who is suffering by Islamic terrorism.
NE AFRICA
Sudan- so many south sudanese Christians are raped, killed. Please try to ask some Sudanese and see what they tell you and come and report to me.
Why are you so blind? there is no country in the world where Muslims are harassed or humliated. All people are civlizsed except muslims. It is Muslims who are harassing, killing raping and bombing people. Why are you so blind to see that i can't understand?

THE TANAKH QUOTE

ANSWER:

Those quotes were given as a nation building instructions for the Israelites, not to conquer the world like Islam. As that time Isreal was surrounded by a pagan,very violent and hostile people. That was meant for specific time, place and specific people. It was given 3000-4000 years ago. Do you see now any Israelie chasing and killing any Ammorites, Amalekites or Edomites?
But the verses in Quran are open for all time. It is meant to conqure the world. You see your Allah has unleased unstoppable bloodshed mankind. It has been going on for 1400 years. Do u see Isrealites now trying to conquer the world by bombing and violence?
You can quote Tanakh, but no one will give you attention, coz they are not happening right now not like your religion.
By the way when you quote that what is your point? are you saying coz it happened long back we should keep quiet and allow you to to it also?
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"Quran is NEVER translated, we can only translate the meaning. unlike the bible"
How can you translate it even if you want? some of the words are dead long time ago and nobody knows them what exactly they mean. Allah has by some ways translate it for you.
Any how does it matter? The Quran does not matter whether it is translated or not or whether it has been preserved for 5000 years. It does not matter as long as it is not from God.

Best regards,
Don.

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