LONG Answer to Lisa

Submitted by Omar (United States), Jan 23, 2006 at 04:42

Thanks so much for your comments. I would like to point out that I am not trying to make out of Islam a peaceful religion. I consider Islam a religion that seeks justice more than peace. I see that Justice can bring peace, but peace can't bring justice. Through history there was always oppressors and oppressed. Telling the oppressed to be peaceful and do nothing would bring justice. But giving the oppressed the permission to fight for justice is the only way for justice.

The Quran states: [22:39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them.

أُذِنَ لِلَّذِينَ يُقَاتَلُونَ بِأَنَّهُمْ ظُلِمُوا وَإِنَّ اللَّهَ عَلَى نَصْرِهِمْ لَقَدِيرٌ

Islam says however, if is justice is possible without war, then so it should be: [8.61] and if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

وَإِن جَنَحُواْ لِلسَّلْمِ فَاجْنَحْ لَهَا وَتَوَكَّلْ عَلَى اللّهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ السَّمِيعُ الْعَلِيمُ


You said,"for GOD sake what is peacful about such a religeon". I got nothing to say but what the Quran did. This is what the Quran says. Did I make that up? Did I make that up? If I am lying about the Translation, you still got the Surah and the Verse number, check it for yourself in ANY Quran on Earth!!!

A lot of people have this image of Islam that it is a brutal religion and cannot be truly a moderate one, nor "incline" towards peace in any means, which contradicts with the Quranic Verse. I am trying to show the peaceful side of Islam, on one hand, and disprove misconceptions on the other hand.

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You are asking for evidence that Islam forbids killing of women and children.
Here it is:

[4:52:257] Narrated 'Abdullah: During some of the Ghazawat of the Prophet a woman was found killed. Allah's Apostle disapproved the killing of women and children.

(Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/notislam/misconceptions.html#HEADING2 )

Also another Hadith
[4:52:258] Narrated Ibn 'Umar: During some of the Ghazawat of Allah's Apostle a woman was found killed, so Allah's Apostle forbade the killing of women and children.

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Muslims are more concerned about the life of Mohammed and The Rightly-Guided Caliphs who "who truly followed in the Prophet's foot steps", and events that happened later after the death of Ali are not always approved by Muslims according to Islamic teachings. For examples, the "caliphate became hereditary, passing from one king to another", not as before when the choice of the new leader was made through "discussion among the Companions of the Prophet". (Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/politics/firstfourcaliphs.html )

You say that "Christianity came 600 years before Islam and Jesus reversed all of the violence acts of humanity". Are you saying that since Jesus came, all Christians became peaceful living in harmony, while Muslims were the disturbing side of the World? Does this mean that World War I, and all the wars before and after, were because of Islamic teachings?

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Let's get to the most important part. You said:

"It is exactly what Muhammad wrote to the kings around Mecca "salem taslam" i.e. become a muslim and then you will be safe, when the kings refused his followers invaded them and ruled by the Sharia law, read Omar's dhimmi laws".

Are you sure this information is 100% accurate. First of all, there was already a peace treaty between Mohammed and the Meccans. When the Mekkans broke the treaty, Mohammed led an army, ten thousand strong, and surprised Mecca which he occupied in a bloodless manner. I think that you don't know what the Meccans did to Mohammed when he had only a few number of followers, this period of time which I describe as the first 13 years of the message. I am interested in knowing how much you know about that period of time. Please don't forget to answer this question.

Back to the Conquest to Mecca, let me quote this from the Biography of Mohammed:

The pagans of Mecca hoping to profit by the Muslim difficulties, violated the terms of their treaty. Upon this, the Prophet himself led an army, ten thousand strong, and surprised Mecca which he occupied in a bloodless manner. As a benevolent conqueror, he caused the vanquished people to assemble, reminded them of their ill deeds, their religious persecution, unjust confiscation of the evacuee property, ceaseless invasions and senseless hostilities for twenty years continuously. He asked them: "Now what do you expect of me?" When everybody lowered his head with shame, the Prophet proclaimed: "May God pardon you; go in peace; there shall be no responsibility on you today; you are free!" He even renounced the claim for the Muslim property confiscated by the pagans. This produced a great psychological change of hearts instantaneously. When a Meccan chief advanced with a fulsome heart towards the Prophet, after hearing this general amnesty, in order to declare his acceptance of Islam, the Prophet told him: "And in my turn, I appoint you the governor of Mecca!" Without leaving a single soldier in the conquered city, the Prophet retired to Madinah. The Islamization of Mecca, which was accomplished in a few hours, was complete.

(Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/profbio.html )

From this quote you can see that the Conquest to Macca did not involve this "Become a Muslim or Else!!" claim.

Secondly, "salem taslam", means surrender and you will be safe. But again I am not sure about your knowledge of the Islamic history. If you never heard about the Maccan religious prosecution and how they were, along with all Arabia, so determined to eliminate Mohammed, then you will not understand why Mohammed was fighting them.

Most Anti-Islam sites claim that Meccans asked Mohammed to leave Macca, which is, at least according to Muslim sources, not true. There was an assassination plot, and he managed to escape it, that is what Muslims believe. This is mentioned in the Biography too (Migration to Madinah, point 27). (Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/prophet/profbio.html )


There is no need to mention the religious prosecution by the Meccans, since many will say that I am making a hero out of Mohammed. The reason why I see people should know about it is because this is the evidence that Mohammed's message was threatened by enemies all over Arabia.

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I usually use the Constitution of Madina made during Mohammed's life period to describe Islamic justice. However, please give me a link to what you call "Omar's dhimmi laws", and please not one of those Anti-Muslim sites, either a non-biased source, or an Islamic site which states them in a list rather than describing them in some passages.

What I know about Omar and non-muslims was through the following contract with the Christians of Jerusalem:

"This is the protection which the servant of God, 'Umar, the Ruler of the Believers has granted to the people of Eiliya [Jerusalem]. The protection is for their lives and properties, their churches and crosses, their sick and healthy and for all their coreligionists. Their churches shall not be used for habitation, nor shall they be demolished, nor shall any injury be done to them or to their compounds, or to their crosses, nor shall their properties be injured in any way. There shall be no compulsion for these people in the matter of religion, nor shall any of them suffer any injury on account of religion... Whatever is written herein is under the covenant of God and the responsibility of His Messenger, of the Caliphs and of the believers, and shall hold good as long as they pay Jizya [the tax for their defense] imposed on them."

The article explains: Those non-Muslims who took part in defense together with the Muslims were exempted from paying Jizya, and when the Muslims had to retreat from a city whose non-Muslim citizens had paid this tax for their defense, the tax was returned to the non-Muslims. The old, the poor and the disabled of Muslims and non-Muslims alike were provided for from the public treasury and from the Zakat funds.

(Source: http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/politics/firstfourcaliphs.html)
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Now after I have read what Omar has said about the treatment to non-Muslims, please provide me with your own sources, but not any of those biased Anti-Islam websites.

Also I want to know what do you know about the history of Islam before Hijra, i.e. the first 13 years of Islam.

Also I want to know your comments on the Quranic Verses and Haidth concerning Peace, Fighting, and the prohibition of killing women and children. Do you have any doubts that he said so? Unfortunately, I can't send you a version of the Quran, but you can look up any Arabic version of the Quran on Earth and check the Arabic text yourself.

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