To Caesar Arevalo- thats NOT true.

Submitted by zaky (United States), Dec 11, 2006 at 00:12

Thats NOT true. only one of the verses i provided was revealed in Medina : this one

Quran (29:46).: Be courteous when you argue with the People of the Book [Christians and jews), except with those among them who do evil. Say: We believe in that which is revealed to us and which was revealed to you. Our God and your God is one.

the other one i mentioned was revealed in Mekkah:

Koran 5:82 says: "Surely they that believe, and the Jews, and the Christians, and those Sabeaans, who believe in God and the Last Day, and works righteousness--their wage waits them with their Lord, and no fear shall be on them, neither shall they sorrow."

So the notion that the prophet mohammad said nice things about the Jews and the christians because he was weak in mekkah is simply NOT true.

The translation of the verses you provided is incomplete and misleading because you awalys leave the verse before or after in which they can change the whole meaning of the verses. Also many of the verses you mentioned were in fact recvealed in mekkah, not madinah.

Lets dissect all the verses you mentioned one by one.

9.005 ( revealed in Madinah)
: But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

however you left out the verse before that which clearely shows that Muhammad was ordered only to fight to those who fought him first. which the following verse demomstrates

9.004 ( revealed in Madinah): Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).

Also the verse after that says;

9.06 ( revealed in Madinah): If one amongst the Pagans ask thee for asylum, grant it to him, so that he may hear the word of Allah; and then escort him to where he can be secure. That is because they are men without knowledge.

2-next verse:( revealed in Madinah)

Those that make war against Allah and His apostle and spread disorder in the land shall be slain or crucified or have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or be banished from the land. They shall be held up to shame in this world and sternly punished in the hereafter." (Sura 5.33-34)

This verse clearly speak agsint those who want to kill the muslims and spread muischeif in the land.A battle take two side to occur. Are you under the impression that while these 'horrid' Muslims were fighting, the enemies were simply standing there like good little peaceful men?

Also you omitted the verse that immediately comes after that:

5.034 ( revealed in Madinah)Except for those who repent before they fall into your power: in that case, know that Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

this shows that the muslims were ordered only those who transgressed.

3- 8.12( revealed in Madinah)Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the ungrateful: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."

I made corrections here. the word infidel in islam doesnt exist. Kufar: means ungrateful. this word however has been changed over time to unbeliever by muslims and non-muslims alike.

Again, this is about the Battle of Badr - not just some daily affair. these verses were revealed during the first year of immigration when the Muslims were under *threat of extinction* by invasion from Makkah. in this particular event the number of the muslims were only 300 compared to 1000 on the other side. they were asked not to let themselves be oppressed and they will get help from God.

if you look to the following verse right after that shows the reason why they are fighting:

8.13: ( revealed in Madinah)

This is because they acted adversely to Allah and His Messenger; and whoever acts adversely to Allah and His Messenger-- then surely Allah is severe in requiting evil.

They were not just asked to kill people, its a battle with the pagans who oppressed them.

4-8:60: ( revealed in Madinah)

And prepare against them what force you can and horses tied at the frontier, to frighten thereby the enemy of Allah and your enemy and others besides them, whom you do not know (but) Allah knows them; and whatever thing you will spend in Allah's way, it will be paid back to you fully and you shall not be dealt with unjustly.

this verse also talk about how the muslims should prepare for the battle since they outnumbered by the pagans. but YOU conveniently ommitted the following verse that says:

8:61: And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in Allah; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

This shows that the muslims were not oredered to kill because the enemy wasnt muslim but because they were forced to do so.

5- 9.073
: O Prophet! strive hard against the ungrateful "unbelievers" and the Hypocrites, and be firm against them. Their abode is Hell,- an evil refuge indeed.

In this verse your translation was wrong. this is not about war its about being firm in dealing with the pagans who lied to muhammad and tried to trick him by telling him they were muslims but they were lying as it explain it the following verses.

9:074-
They swear by Allah that they said nothing (evil), but indeed they uttered blasphemy, and they did it after accepting Islam; and they meditated a plot which they were unable to carry out: this revenge of theirs was (their) only return for the bounty with which Allah and His Messenger had enriched them! If they repent, it will be best for them;

6- 17:16: And when We wish to destroy a town, We send Our commandment to the people of it who lead easy lives, but they transgress therein; thus the word proves true against it, so We destroy it with utter destruction.

BTW, this verse was revealed in Mekkah. i dont understand why you mentioned this verse. it talks about God's punishment in previous times when other prophets were ordered to carry God's message. again the verse that immediately comes after that explains it:

17.017
How many generations have We destroyed after Noah? and enough is thy Lord to note and see the sins of His servants.

so it clearly talks about Gods wrath agaisnt the sinners just like in the Bible.

7- 21:011: (revealed in Makkah)

And how many a town which was iniquitous did We demolish, and We raised up after it another people!

21.012
Yet, when they felt Our Punishment (coming), behold, they (tried to) flee .

Again this talks about the previous generations when people were punished by natural disasters jsut like in the bible.

8-47.4 ( revealed in Makkah)
: So when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners, and afterwards either set them free as a favor or let them ransom (themselves) until the war terminates. That (shall be so); and if Allah had pleased He would certainly have exacted what is due from them, but that He may try some of you by means of others.

Again theres no delibrate killing, its all in the battle, the muslims here, were ordered not to kill the prisoners.

9- and lastly

48:29-(revealed in Makkah)

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the ungrateful, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Torah and their description in the Gospel like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward.

Again you didnt finish the whole verse, therfore the meaning of the verse was misconstrued.

The verses need to be interpreted in there koranic and historical context. Some Revelations in the Koran speak to what it means to be a Muslim while other Revelations are specifically given to Mohammed in response to a particular even. So the notion that Mohammad came up with lienient verses in makkah and with more harsh ones in Madinah its just not true.

Also The Koran always refers to the Mecca pagans as idolators ands "unbelievers", who are characterized by kufr or the ingratitude or nowadys the word change to" unbelievers" by muslims and non-muslims alike. Christians and jews are considered by Islam believers.

The term "holy war" is from the time of the Crusades and originated in Europe as a rallying cry against the Muslims in Jerusalem. Jihad is an Arabic word meaning struggle, but in the context of many verses in the Koran, it carries the meaning of military struggle, or war.

As you see God gradually introduced the obligation of military struggle to the Muslim community at the time of Muhammad. The first verse ever revealed in that connection is as follows (translation),

[22:39] Permission (to fight) is given to those upon whom war is made because they are oppressed, and most surely Allah is well able to assist them;

This verse lays down the precondition for all war in Islam: there must exist certain oppressive conditions on the people. In Islam God unequivocally orders people to fight oppression and persecution, even at the expense of bloodshed as the following verse shows . just like what the US is doing in Iraq fighting a dictator.

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