A dogmatist's critical eye

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Dec 15, 2006 at 12:50

Phonetics wrote referring to my comment :

>>Dear Agnostic ,

>>after dogmatically stigmatizing most of the participants of the forum

>(well, after all, most of you are basically saying the same thing, and isn't it alright nowadays to state something different?

We are all concerned about the truth here in this forum, not about saying something different at any cost , e.g. at the cost of the truth , as is the case with our Agnostic.

> or is this forum communist or socialist?)

Critical of Islam .

>> as stereotype-mongers

>(well perhaps you had better ask Judeo-Christ about that, with his "grass roots" theory of getting every islamic person out of america and basically making their lives a nightmare)

"Wherever Arabs (Moslems) come in touch with other cultures there is war" (Helmuth von Moltke, Letters on the situation in Turkey in the years 1835-1839)

>, you ask :

> >do we not learn anything from history?

>>I wonder what lessons you have learnt from (Islam's) history ? Could you give us a few ?

> well, there is the ottoman empire that's a good lesson,

A good lesson in enslaving whole nations(Greeks, South Slavs) and massacring whole cities (e.g.Constantinople) and changing propserous fertile lands into deserts (Asia Minor). What did these Turks bring us except savage yoke of Islam (janissaries) and cultural decay (the end of literary life of Greece may serve as an example) ? Those hyenes changed the Parthenon into a mosque. The same happend to Hagia Sophia. And they almost succeeded in doing the same with Stephan's Dome in Vienna. We in Eastern Europe still well remeber that "good lesson" .

> then of course there is the moore dynasty thats a good historical lesson,

And the renewal of Moslem rule under the Berber Almoravids.

> Imam Al Ghazali, and other mind wizzes that paved the way for grecian and later western philosophy,

Western philosophy was born out the spirit that is incompatible with Islam. It was from Byzantium that genuine Greek works came to the West , not Islamized Arab translations. Renaissance started after the Greek scholars sought and found refuge from the savage Turkish hordes in the west.

> of course as the prophet Muhammad (pbuh) once said, seek knowledge as far as your mind permits

O"f course" ? As usually Muslim scholars are not united in acknowledging the hadith as genuine... Anyway , your captivated Moslem mind is unable to imagine the simplest thing without asking your illetarate impostor teacher for permission. "Dear prophet , this is a kaffir book . May I touch and read it without being anathemized by other Muslims and expoded to persecutions by my local imam and ulema? Will I be sent to the seventh hell for srpeading its contents? " What a sickening infantilism !!! And such a slave mentality should allegedly have given rise to freedom-loving and critical Western rationalism ?!

>which is why there is an islamic admiral from china who paved the path for sea routes.

He was looking most probably for the sea way to Mecca.

> Then there is Umar Bin Khattab, one of my personal favourites, who banned a governor of a state for evicting a jewish peasant because "the jews hut was all he had"...

Didn't his imams or ulemas ban him in turn ? Really, amazing! One poor Jew not evicted ! I wonder how much in bribes the Jewish community had to pay the emir to stop the governor ?

> Then there is Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, Ahmaddinedjad, and others, who are not of the true faith

Who are you to know that ??? Haven't you insisted before that "Faith is something corresponding with God and not with another human being..." ?

> because they are not people who have learnt anything from history.

So now "true faith" is defined as "learning something from history" of man while before it was "something corresponding with God and not with another human being..." ??? Truly Moslem consistency !!!

> And Jihad was only considered something of a "physical war" after the wahhabist's, and not before

You have learnt that of course from your "universal history textbook" alias "the Quran"?

> because before the Islam was still true and that is why most muslims today are still on search of the Islam that was "before".

I am struggling to find some meaning in what you say ...but it seems to be as hopeless as a search of the Islam that was "before" Islam....

> perhaps you should take a further look around before you claim me as someone who doesn't learn.

There is a nice French proverb that might well apply to you, but I consciously refrain from quoting it here.

>> As to the saying :

>>>"as sting once said "the russians love their children too"...

>>Can you give a historically documented examples of Russians -or their children- as suicide bombers?

>You have totally missed the point,

Which according to you is what ?

> but i guess being literal is something that you guys do all the time,

You can't imagine how hard it is while dealing with faithful disciples of an illiterate author.

>what with your interpretations in the Qur'an being "so" literal and prejudice. What sting was talking about is the fact that prejudice will do nothing and seeing behind that is the most important thing, it's not about country, religion or race.

Yes, he might be so loftily abstract as you suggest. His saying doesn't apply alas to such concrete and sticky thing as you Moslems!

> Because instinctively inside we are all the same,

Homo Islamicus seems anthropologically as different -if not more- from Homo Sapiens as chimpanzee is .

>hence "the russians love their children too".

The Russians definetely do. They are Europeans par excellance. Enlightment and Christianity have made them most admirable people. But the Moslems ???

> BTW a few decades ago that was not what was thought.

Corrupt and doctrinaire politicians like Reagan or Brzezinsky might have said so. I have always thought otherwise.

> The Soviet, cuba, cold war, remember any of those?

I lived through these years! I remember Afghanistan and the heroic struggle of the Red Army gainst the American -Islamic Axis of Evil!

> We could both use a little more learning, couldn't we?

Provided we enlarge our history textbooks and include more critical monographies.

> Or was vietnam not enough?

Good smoke curtain for Moslems to sneak into the west unnoticed...

> I mean Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a long time ago,

Not so long ago to my mind!

> I'm sure everyone has forgotten.

Not the Japanese, not anyone interested in history.

> Especially the children and their parents who are still having to bare the brunt of post nuclear radioactivity.

How much does Saudi Arabia pay in charities to them ? They prefer to support those great terrorists' families that "are still having to bear the brunt of post suicide-bombing ecstasy".

> I don't hate America really.

Why ??? Do you live as a parasite there ?

> But playing judge on the streets and stamping something on people that you think belong in one category are not what the founding fathers of America were dreaming of, nor are they what you dream of now right?

What did the founding fathers know about Islam ? Nothing! What if they had known ? They would turn in their graves now that so little is being done to protect their New Israel against that new - and much much worse - Babylonian Captivity well underway!

> fighting terror with more brute force does nothing but increase the terror.

Wrong! It is the right and most rational means to minimize terror... It is like fighting bandits. Don't use force and you'll see how banditry will "decrease".... It will of course if you simultaneously suppress all crime reports in mass media and instruct the police to refuse to register any crime .

> Why not educate?

Whom ? A bandit ? Go and educate him so that he knows how to terrorize better.

> Why not open communication lines?

They need that really. It will faciliate terror extraordinarily!

> Why not see what the other media's saying on the other side?

We know that ad nauseam.

> Wasn't that what Jesus was all about?

You mean Jesus or Isa ibn Miriam , the future over-warlord of the world jihad ?

> Wasn't Moses all for compassion?

No, it was Allah ...you now the Compassionate , the Merciful...

> Muhammad is for that too...

Mohammad ibn Abdallah , the mass murderer ???

> Could 1.3 billion people be all that lost?

As long as they remain Moslems they have no chance ...

> if so, then that is a lot to solve.

Something logical at last , phonetics , although "even if not so"!

> Shouldn't we be starting right away?

"We"? How do you mean? Have you apostasized from Islam yet ? Do that and we can start any moment !

> instead of bickering in this forum?

What you call "bickering" is a most serious effort to find out the truth, phonetics!

>There's a revolution that happened in the Philippines, it's called the Orange revolution if I'm not mistaken. It downthroned Marcos, and no blood was shed...

Because Moslems didn't participate ...

> The people did not retaliate in the face of military force, and all was won.

In a civilized country things like that can happen quite often. I am unaware of any civilized Moslem country though ...And generally any country with a sizable Moslem minority becomes inevitably more and more uncivilized. It's a universal law, phonetics, alas.

> So tell me Ianus? Why do you personally hate Islam?

"Personally" ? It is quite an impersonal feeling, phonetics.

> Did they do something personally to you?

Again "personally" ? They are un-persons to me...

> What was the Islamics name?

Allah, Muhammad , the Quran ...

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