Mansoor: You have shown us the Lord's creation skills need dusting.

Submitted by Plato (India), Mar 17, 2008 at 03:15

Mansoor you wrote:

>>Now see the above Surah according to My perception.

Let's suppose you have built a very great beautiful house. Your house is full of ….. It has Gardens, Pools, Wash Rooms, Kitchen, Heaters and of course electrical appliances with outlets etc. …. you have children …. for their safety you would …. prompt them to secure themselves. You would say to your child "Don't go…... "Don't put your finger …..". Don't enter…... Don't run fast…" These are warnings in the best interest of your children" Similarly our Lord warns us from different things and just because we don't know about the negative impact attached to those creations.<<

Mansoor, there is one big defect in the picture you have painted. The houses we build will, and do have defects because humans built them. But how can a house built by Allah not be perfect without dangers and faults? So either Allah has deliberately built it with all the dangers one can think of to endanger us or your Allah is incapable of building a safe house. So which is it??

>> A sincere advice from our Lord is so easily rejected by us.<<

The advice will be sincere only if Allah was incapable of building a safe house and so has to warn His children of the possible defects in His construction. If He has deliberately created a house which is dangerous for its inhabitants then His advice is insincere. He had put in dangers to trap His unwary children. That is the reason why the Lord's advice is easily shown to be useless.

>>The point is, we should accept that somebody has created us. From the initial stages of our birth till the end of our life passes through an extremely complicated and well engineered system which is itself a sign that our creation has a very significant importance. If we deny that very easily it is not in our best favor.<<

The creator could also be something rather than someone. A someone would mean that someone is a very cruel, baleful being. This is obvious from the horrors that w see around us in the form of god-given disasters, diseases, suffering, hunger, wars etc. A something on the other hand is not a being with intentions, desires or feelings. The Universe argues for something rather than someone. You can see that the well engineered system keeps collapsing regularly in nature and in our bodies and minds. I find it very easy to deny this someone.

>> It would be better if we discuss that how best we can say thanks to our Lord who has chosen us to see all the luxuries, colors and comforts of life.<<

A lord who allows diseases, disasters, wars and also destroys whole towns and people does not deserve any thanks. The comforts of life were created by people. The original earth which the Lord claims to have created was a disaster area for humans. Humans have managed to block many of the diseases the Lord created to trouble us. Our technology and science prevents famines and other Lord-created disasters.

>> Do you know that from how many sperms your father wasted, only you were lucky to get life. Because, you were God's chosen one. Do you know how many people are there on earth and you were chosen to see the colors of life with your family, friends with good health. Because you were specially chosen to see and experience all this.<<

Look, my father did not waste the sperms. The complicated engineering that the Lord created seems to have been extremely wasteful by discarding billions of potential beings to pick out just me. The wastage in eggs, for Lord knows what reason, is incomparably lower. Could the lord not think up a one to one situation for sperms and eggs. Though thankful for my existence I am not particularly happy that literally billions of my brothers and sisters were garbaged by the Lord to create me. What a wasteful and extremely poor engineering skills He has demonstrated with the way he creates babies.

>> Thinking this way would make yourself feel very special. When you see miseries, cries, illnesses and many bad phases of life experienced by people in the world, you begin to thank even more. Just try to open your eyes.<<

I feel special for having been selected from the sperm lottery. When I see misery and pain I begin to think and wonder at the ridiculousness of prophets telling us that there is a merciful, benevolent creator taking good care of us. It opens my eyes to the fact that these prophets were being dishonest.

>>Our Lord is not asking any price for what you are enjoying, All he wants to identify him, say thanks and follow his commandments which are not very difficult to follow if seen with a positive eye.<<

First you claim He is not asking any price and then you name the price Allah wants from us,i.e. identify Him. You claim He owns and operates everything in the Universe. And you keep insisting that we on earth are involved in a treasure hunt to locate signs of this Lord in what prophets say He has created.

Look I see no signs of the perfect engineer with the universe moving faultlessly towards this Lord's purpose. All I see are random events settling down into some modicum of order and which frequently explode into disorder and disaster in our part of the universe.

>> The kind of life you are in love with is not at all your chosen one, it is a gifted one, better understand Plato…<<

I do love life, but I am not in love with it. I did not choose and if given a choice chances are I may not have chosen life, especially if I knew it was controlled by a capricious being expecting me to go on a treasure hunt to looking for clues to His existence failing which He would consign to me hell fire. I also know that to gift me this life billions of potentially better persons than me were thrown into the garbage can by the Lord. This is my understanding.

>> My reply is getting lengthy but I want to open the closed doors. May be you will again reject my way of thinking again..But better think this way when you are alone.<<

I am not rejecting your way of thinking. It is just one of many ways of thinking about our existence, though I believe yours is a fairy tale. And you think I am being arrogant in not accepting that there is a Lord who I should try and discover and worship as a favour for giving me life.

You are telling me how to think. All I am doing is showing you that there are many holes in the way you think. Most of your thoughts seem recycled from what maulanas tell you the true religion wants you to think. I make an effort to pose questions that go against what prophets, and other purveyors of religion tell me and formulate answers that satisfy me. My answers evolve as more information comes my way. Yours have not changed for a thousand years.

>> Allah is just prompting us. Not sending his army or police to comply. It is only our inner check and balance system which has to be activated. That is very necessary. <<

Prompting is not the right word. Threatening would be more correct if you have read the Koran. Threatening, cursing, abusing, swearing is what the Lord does very often in the Koran when He talks of unbelievers.

If He does not send his army or police then what were they doing in Perisa, Egypt, Spain, India.

>> People here are seeing Islam on the basis of practices of very ill minded people who have not even read a single verse of Quran and call them Muslims.<<

Yes, they are definitely ‘very ill-minded' people. But you err in saying they have not read a single verse of the Koran. What were those people reading when they beheaded enemies of Islam on video. Bin Laden has not read a single verse? Zarqawi had not read a single verse? Had the Deobandis in your Lal Masjid not read the Koran?

Who really are the real Muslims and where on earth can we find them?

>> I hope I have succeeded in washing some dust from your heart.<<

The dust in my heart remains but with every post you help to remove more dust from my understanding of how Muslims think. I have to be honest with you Mansoor, what is being exposed under the dust is not very pretty.

Regards

Plato

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".