Mansoor: Your net is full of large holes

Submitted by Plato (India), Mar 19, 2008 at 07:28

Mansoor, you write:

>>Plato, I am very amazed that you seem to have worn a fish's skin which doesn't allow to be caught very easily.<<

Mansoor, there is no need to be amazed and I am not a slippery fish. It is not my slippery fish skin that helps me slip out of your Islamic net. It is just that the net made up of a mish-mash of Islamic history, Koranic verses and maulana-theology is full of very large holes, easy to swim through effortlessly.

>>As for your objection regarding loopholes in the creations specially in the light of my example of a house, I would say that anything which has no loophole, no misery, no disease, no pain, no agony can be only be Heaven...and its ready and waiting for those who are the true believers.<<

That is the million dollar question, why does Allah go to the trouble of deliberately creating a house full of misery, disease, pain and agony to trap people. Why can't He, with all his acclaimed powers, create a heaven on earth instead of casting his net baited with misery, disease, pain and agony to trap people to feed his hell? Does this bring up questions about Allah's nature (benevolent or malevolent?) or about his almightiness?

And why does true belief deserve heaven?

>>World today with lot of miseries lot of pains and agony is there to perish. This is the basic logic.<<

What logic do you see in creating a world full of miseries, pain and agony to finally make it perish. Only someone without any sense of useful purpose will do anything so silly.

>>You said Human invented all the medicines to fight again diseases, Ok it means you are ready to give all the credit to human alone!!!. Do you accept that had we were not gifted with such a smart brain, had we be able to create anything which we see around????<<

Yes, full credit to humans for all the wonders he has created and fought largely successfully, against the misery, disease, pain and agony that Allah has blessed this perishable world with.

We are gifted with smart brains? That is Allah's unproven claim. The very fact that the large majority of people cannot see any signs of Allah using their smart brains and in fact can question His very existence using simple logic and reasoning shows that it is not a designer gift from Allah.

>>The creation is the Property and Quality of Lord which he has gifted us.<<

That is another claim you read in a 1400 year-old book reconstructed from what someone said he was informed of by an angel who in turn claimed he got if from someone called Allah. You believe that. But if I tell you directly that this angel also spoke to me and told me Allah is dead why would you not believe this information?

>> The claim you are boasting is as same as you say that I have written the whole book but I would not accept that I used the pen!!! very very strange!!!<<

You will have to rephrase that as I am not getting the sense of what you are trying to tell me. Are you trying to tell me that when humans create something they using the ‘pen' of Allah's gift to do it? If that is what you are asking then I have already told you there is no label the on pen saying it was manufactured by Allah. What is very, very strange is that Allah refuses to put his label or signature on it. Any good designer worth his salt would do it, especially one so egotistical as Allah.

>>You are running very fast in your denials, but you are still very very weak in all sense.<<

You can't win a race by making claims. Claiming that the ones who are ahead are in reality weak and so the person limping behind last should be declared the winner does not indicate a smart brain.

>> You also said that God, threats, swears etc. etc. Ok! What do you do if your child insists on eating a tablet which you believe is poison, would stop him with love or if doesn't comply you will surely threat him or even beat him because you are well aware of the agony attached to that tablet.<<

My dear Mansoor, you claim that the smart brain you have is a gift from your Allah. Now why does this smart brain not tell you that the tablet which the child is forbidden to eat was created and kept within reach by this Allah Himself, for he claims to be the creator of everything and everyone is governed by his laws and his all-seeing eyes does not escape anything happening. Why would He want to beat up the poor kid when that is the case?

>>Every sincere word of God is taken with negative perspective by you which is very unfair Plato!!<<

Have you looked up the meaning of the word sincere? Is it sincere for someone to say He is responsible for misguiding you and then punish you for it (6:149, 42:44). This Misguider sometimes destroys whole towns, women and children included, by such insincere machinations (17:16). He outdoes Himself in insincerity by conniving with Satan to prey on humans (38:73-83). You expect me to value this beings so-called ‘sincere words'?

>> Yeah I admit, lots of Maulanas have great influence on my mind and I respect those people who are there to guide you towards a correct path.<<

Since you have referred me to Zakir Naik I presume he is one of the persons who has an influence on you. I was recently watching him perform on Peace TV and he had me rolling on the floor when someone asked him whether Muslims should keep a beard. He referred to a hadith (I can't remember the numbers which were flashed on screen) which quoted the prophet as saying do the opposite of what the unbelievers do.

So if unbelievers shave and keep moustaches then it is proper that Muslims keep a beard and shave off their moustache. The questioner looked crestfallen. The poor man had a moustache and was clean shaven. The man must have realised he was on the wrong path. I also showed in reply to another post how Zakir Naik rises to Allah's defence bout His confusion about the number of days of creation by saying asking that question is blasphemy. I think you should exercise a bit more care in selecting the people who guide you.

>>For me it is necessary to consider the authentic religious cleric who has good reputation and moreover has undisputed character.<<

Would a sheikh of Al Azhar be acceptable to you. He ruled, based on authentic hadith, that to work together alone with a man it is sufficient that she breast feed him a few times to make her his foster mother. Would you care to be guided by that fatwa, Mansoor?

And what about the great Saudi cleric who ruled that the earth is stationary? Pervez Hoodbhoy the Pakistani scientist writes in "Islam and Science: Religious Orthodoxy and the Battle for Rationality".

".. The Sheikh (Abdul Aziz Ibn Baz) authored ... a book in Arabic entitled Jiryan Al-Shams Wa Al-Qammar Wa-Sukoon Al-Arz. This translates into Motion of the Sun and Moon, and Stationarity of the Earth... In an earlier book, he had threatened dissenters with the dire fatwa or takfir (disbelief), but did not repeat the threat in the newer version." Page 49 (http://www.nd.edu/~milind/posts/hoodbhoy.html)

Are these two clerics acceptable to you, Mansoor?

>> Plato! I am very much serious this time, I should ask you that why have you created such rigid character for yourself???<<

Tell me what is rigid about my character. All I do is ask you to prove your claims about your prophet and his god Allah. What you do is spit out verses from the Koran which say Allah is great and Muhammad his apostle is the best of humans to guide us all to the right path.

These verses were themselves recited by the person who claimed to have been appointed by Allah via his angel Gabriel. This you seem to think proves that Allah is great and Muhammad is his prophet. Perfect circular reasoning implanted in smart Muslim brains by Allah and one very good reason why Islamic science is moving in rigid circles.

>>Your thinking shows as if you are a self created person which is not at all acceptable.<<

You say my thinking shows that I think I am self created person. Where have I claimed any such thing and you would be right in rejecting my self-proclaimed claim. But does it not strike you that the same should apply to Muhammad's claim to be Allah's apostle? Is his claim not clearly ‘self-created' by him via the Koran?

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