"I Hate You! I Want To Kill You! Why Don't You Love Me?"

Submitted by orange yonason (United States), Mar 27, 2006 at 03:49

BS"D

Sorry, Dr. Pipes, but this is (necessarily) long. Please either post the whole thing, or not at all. If you want me to break it up, I might be able to, but I would rather you don't. Thanks.

I will be presenting excerpts and addressing them as follows:

Mu'een Ud Deen's screed
(it's deconstruction in parens [and brackets])

note: Mu'een is a male name, but UdDeen's writing is strongly effeminate and histrionic. I'll try to use "DD," since I don't want to get the gender wrong, and "it" just isn't appropriate. But bear with me, please if I slip into calling DD "her," since that's how I think "she" comes across.
_____________________________________________

"So now it's cartoons ... Oh lordy, lordy. [see what I mean] What we're witnessing is the childishness of civilisations.
(jibberish. the only "childishness" is that of DD. It is not "childish" to burn down embassies and to kill people one hates. It is evil. And if DD's "religion" can't help DD identify that behavior as such, then that religion has failed miserably, and it becomes clearer why it can't get it's practitioners to behave civily. And the Danish cartoons, by contrast, appear to be quite correct in their depiction of Islam as a violent [and irrational: just look at DD's "logic"] cult of death. That's not "childish," that's responsible journalism.)

So let's start off with the Department of Home Truths.
( the whah...? )

This is not an issue of secularism versus Islam.
(So, what does she see this as an "issue" of, ...a "religeous war," maybe? And when did secularism become a civilization? ...or Islam, for that matter?)

For Muslims, the Prophet is the man who received divine words directly from God.
( Just because one believes something, doesn't make it true. Respect is owed to TRUTH, not belief, and also to a person's right to freely choose, even if they choose incorrectly. The "secular" that DD is rightly critical of, though for the wrong reasons, bends over backward to respect beliefs like DD's. And how does DD return the favor? True to her breeding, she delightedly takes the food, then bites the hand that feeds her.)

We see our prophets as faintly historical figures,
(I never told you that you could speak for me? Don't!)

...at odds with our high-tech human rights,
(no they aren't at odds with our rights. Speak for yourself. Sheesh, "high-tech," there she goes with her extraneous adjectives again.)

...almost cariacatures of themselves.
(only if you are talking about Islamists who "cariacaturize" [caricaturize] themselves; and so much better than any Danish cartoonist ever could!)

The fact is that Muslims live their religion.
(as do many others. Here we see DD's master-race mindset oozing out. In her mind, only Muslims are capable of "living" their religion, whereas the behavior of all others, however religious, is beneath her contempt.)

We do not
(Again, you do not speak for us. Also, as we shall soon see, DD is presenting a mute argument.)

They have kept their faith through innumerable historical vicissitudes.
(Oh, yeah, what "vicissitudes?" Like, suffering the pain of failing to wipe out entire peoples that they hate? Now why do you suppose she wants us to view these ignoble desert marauders in a positive light? And STOP pretending to be one of us.)

We have lost our faith ever since Matthew Arnold wrote about the sea's "long, withdrawing roar".
([Darn that Matthew Arnold! I just knew he was up to no good! -- Why if it wasn't for him, Arabs could hate the West for NOT loosing it's faith.] -- And STOP saying "we" when you are clearly NOT one of "us.")

That's why we...
(wee, wee, wee; there's that disingenuous "we" again. [Is she home yet?] DD is STILL not one of us! She is one of THEM! ...which is why she is spewing her nonsensical garbage here in the first place.)

...talk about "the West versus Islam" rather than "Christians versus Islam" - because there aren't an awful lot of Christians left in Europe.
(No, we call it Islam vs the West because that is what it is. When Islam goes after China, it will be Islam vs. the Orient. [remember, China, if the West lost, you would [shudder] possibly represent the last hope of humanity!] And, why is DD trying to inject "Christianity" into the mix, anyway? Is it because DD sees the West as "Christian." not "secular?" If we used the terms Islam vs Christianity, DD would be the first to screem "RELIGIOUS WAR WAGED BY WEST ON POOR ISLAMIC VICTIMS." But when DD uses the terms, it's to mock the west for alledgedly abandoning it's religious heritage [see above where she praises Islam for keeping it's faith, despite suffering nebulous unspecified "historical vicissitudes."]. and our perceived failure, in her eyes, has no effect on her hate for us; which would have been just as strong even if every Westerner were Christian. Mideaval Islam didn't care. Anyway, the cat is definitely out of the body-bag now. DD poses her screed the way she does because for DD this IS a religious war.)

There is no way we can get round this by setting up all the other world religions and asking why we are not allowed to make fun of Mohamed.'
(What does she mean "we are not allowed?" I am NOT forbidden to make fun of the homicidal lunatic liar except by him and and his rampaging horde of antisocial cuthroats to whom the Danish cartoonists didn't even come close to doing justice. And I'm not looking to "get around" anything. I could care less why Islam thinks I should accept it's ridiculously oppressive laws.)

This was written by a journalist (Robert Fisk [the antisemite?]).
(Ohhhh, a "journalist." Very impressive! [or so we are to think] Only reluctantly does she tell us who it is, no doubt afraid that we might plotz in awe. [Do you think she realizes sshe is being fisked?])

It clearly addresses the problems between the 'west' and Islam.
(yep, it's as clear as mud )

So many people on this forum feel as though they know everything about Islam yet they use internet address where verses (ayats) of the Qur'an are available and 'copy and paste' to make their point.
(Not "so many," and I don't find them any more credable than DD, unless they are ex-Muslims who know what they are talking about.
http://www.islam-watch.org/
http://islamreview.org/AnwarShaikh/author.html [possibly]
Most of us don't quote Islam's scriptures. WE DON'T NEED TO. It doesn't matter if we are completely ignorant of everything DD's religion has to say. Why? Because we see how they behave. It wouldn't matter if Islam said the nicest things in the world.; murderer, theft and lies are not justified by pretty words. And when their words aren't even pretty, there isn't much one can say in their favor)

I don't blame these people
(Yes she does, but why would she think we cared?)

because it is the media's portrayal of Islam (it sells big).
(Oh. please! The "media" bends over backwards not to offend the throat slitters, so this "blame" is just what we in the west call a "straw man" she sets up to make her obviously phoney argument sound plausable. If the media can be blamed for anything it's covering up the Islamist threat to the World.)

So many people in this forum have prejudice...
(in contrast to her balanced, even-handed contempt of us?)

...which effect their judgement
(DD has the rikshaw before the coolie here. It is because some of us have exercised our critical judgement in deconstructing their lies and because we have honestly observed their abhorrent behavior that we find them detestable. It's NOT "prejudice" but an honest and inescapeable virdict based on careful examination of the factual evidence.)

and shows ignorance beyond belief.
(Oh the shame: that we have been caught in the act of being ignorant; unlike DD, who is so knowledgable about us! Aren't we fortunate that we have such a terrorist surrogate to correct our thinking, and bring it more in line with that of, ...Bin Ladin? How very nice, ...except as I just pointed out, our ignorance of what they say in no way detracts from our ability to judge their deeds.)

I have studied Islam for (so so) many years
(my sympathies, if in fact you have actually studied it. [I didn't think it was permitted to girls]. And if she is so knowledgable, why doesn't she talk about religion, instead of the Western culture she detests? If it had any real meaning for her, she would.)

and it angers me to see MEDIOCRE [my emph.,] people telling me about Islam when they know little - is that not arrogance.
(Does she mean like how she is telling us Westerners about ourselves when she clearly knows so little about us? Is that what she means by arrogance? DD's bigotry is as transparent as a see-through burka. Our contempt for Islam isn't based on any ignorant arrogant misinterpretations of it's tennets. Our contempt is based on the abundant solid evidence of it's inferiority based on the EXECRABLE behaviour of it's adherents. Also, the term "mediocre" [there's that adjective-pathology again] cannot properly be applied to people. It applies to things, or behaviours, but not to the ignorant, not to the incompetant nor even the willfully malicious. A correct use of the term might be, "DD's critical thinking, [not DD], is mediocre at best, as can easily be seen by her ignorance-based arrogant supremist contempt for the West, and the shoddyness of her work, at least by Western STD's)

The problem and the reason for terrorist attacks lays dormant in the racial/religious division - Islam places more emphasis on 'the will of God' whilst western secular values preach 'freedom of speech' and 'acceptance of various contrasting belief.'
(Sure it is. So what was Islam's excuse when they wrought devistation throughout Europe when most Europeans WERE devoutly religious and the concept of "freedom of speech" didn't yet exist? DD's ...talk about "the West versus Islam" rather than "Christians versus Islam" - because there aren't an awful lot of Christians left in Europe.
(No, we call it Islam vs the West because that is what it is. When Islam goes after China, it will be Islam vs. the Orient. [remember, China, if the West lost, you would [shudder] possibly represent the last hope of humanity!] And, why is DD trying to inject "Christianity" into the mix, anyway? Is it because DD sees the West as "Christian." not "secular?" If we used the terms Islam vs Christianity, DD would be the first to screem "RELIGIOUS WAR WAGED BY WEST ON POOR ISLAMIC VICTIMS." But when DD uses the terms, it's to mock the west for alledgedly abandoning it's religious heritage [see above where she praises Islam for keeping it's faith, despite suffering nebulous unspecified "historical vicissitudes."]. and our perceived failure, in her eyes, has no effect on her hate for us; which would have been just as strong even if every Westerner were Christian. Mideaval Islam didn't care. Anyway, the cat is definitely out of the body-bag now. DD poses her screed the way she does because for DD this IS a religious war.) illogic is so easily debunked because it is so arrogant that it thinks we believe whatever it's supremist ego regurgitates)

This divide will never resolve until one side come to their senses.
(Gee, I wonder to whom she could be referring to? There is no "divide" that need to be resolved, except in their minds. So, now that we know who has to come to their senses, the problem is getting them to realize it.)

Personally, I feel (the majority of) humanity is damned and I have lost faith in people.
(Ohhh, drat. It seems my sympathy for the evil-terrorist sympathizer faking-sympathy-for-humanity button is out of order today. Maybe DD could try again tomorrow? ...or not.)

Many Muslims believe that mankind will be responsible for its own destruction - not god.
(NO! Many Muslims believe that THEY are responsible TO their god for destroying the civilized elements of humanity.
http://www.michnews.com/cgi-bin/artman/exec/view.cgi/101/6378/printer
According to them, everyone must submit to their perverse barbaric misconceptions of G-d, or die. Rather than guide by example, they prefer to eliminate whatever reminds them that they are not the supreme masters they wannabe, or is perceived as a threat to their supremacy. They are arrogant, selfish, beastial, savage monsters, and, until they learn real humility, their envy and hate will continue to consume them and us.)

We will decide when the 'day of judgement' will come however Allah (God) will know when........
(Hey, where did she go? Is this a case of premature shihadation? Did Homeland Security arrive at her door with a warrant? Did she fall asleep at the keyboard? Is she at a loss for words? Or, maybe she's just .................................................... overly melodramatic? She certainly doesn't give us any fact based assertions to deal with, but then, they do try to avoid that at all costs.)

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