European Enlightenement against Turkish Obscurantism

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 23, 2010 at 10:36

Turk from Turkey wrote :

Emperor Alexios Comnenus in a letter written around 1080 (9 years after Manzikert) to Rober Count of Flanders writes :

" I wish to make known you prudence how the most sacred empire of the Greek Christians is being sorely distressed by [....] the Turks, who daily ravage it and unitermittently seize its territory; and there is promiscuous slaughter and indescribable killing and derision of the Christians. [...]."

>Good Letter. A historical, valuable and unbiased evidence from the ruler of an Empire which has lost a major war only a decade ago, trying to create a 'missa contra turcas' and prepare the base for the 1^st Crusade.<

Nice to learn of humanistic missionaries of Allah spreading Buddhist morals of compassion and love among the Greek nomads by burning their villages, desecrating their churches, slaughtering and raping their priests and monks, cutting throats to peasants, abducting their cattle, enslaving and selling on the near Middle eastern slave markets the kidnapped Greek youth ! How generous of the Turks! If Turks had a sense of humour they might use withouth changing a single world the Turkish scholarly "discussions" ( I include here yours) as a perfect example of obscurantist parody.

Let's quote more copiouly from the letter which only hints at all the horrors the Turkish Islamic beasts have brought to the civilized world :

" For they circumcise the boys and youths of the Christians over the Christian baptismal fonts, and in contempt of Christ they pour the blood from the circumcision into the said baptismal fonts and compel them to void urine thereon; and thereafter they violently drag them around in the church, compelling them to blaspheme the name of the Holy Trinity and the belief therein. But those who refuse to do these things they punish in diverse ways and ultimately they kill them. Noble matrons and their daughters whom they have robbed [of their possessions] they, one after another like animals, defile in adultery... Let us come to matters of greater depravity. Men of every age and order i.e. boys, adolescents, youths, old men, nobles, serfs, and, what is worse and more shameless, clergymen and monks, and alas and alack, what from the beginning has never been said or heard, bishops! - they defile with the sin of sodomy and now they are also trumpeting abroad that one bishop has succumbed to this abominable sin. The holy places they desecrate and destroy in numberless ways, and they threaten them with worse treatment."

Now for the Turk such things are simple taboo, not thinkable, therefore their historical reality must be consistently denied. But interestingly enough, this denial of reality suggests the Turks know what 'really' happened. But how can they know that ? They deny the extant sources and have nothing to support their happy pseudo-history with except their big-mouthed claims. But why bother? They hate history and despise its methods and results unless they can abuse history for their jihad and their missing historical identity.

Anywa, there is a thorough German study on how the Turks eradicated Hellenism in Asia Minor in the early stages of their jihad "Der Verfall des Griechentums in Kelinasien im XIV. Jahrhundert" by Albert Wächter , Leipzig 1905. The author copiously quotes other pertinent sources to elucidate this ghastly historical topic of destruction of a millenia-old civilization and its replacement by Turkic barbarity, of changing farming lands into steppes, of re-introducing Nomadism into the settled areas, of changing civilized people into illiterate Moslemzombies, in short of how Turkish jihadism prevailed over Christianity in what was once the cradle of Christianity.

But go deny also this book and all the sources it contains and many other sources you Turks forgot to destroy, distort so far and yet deny without ever inspecting them! Commit the second part of your barbarism -that of destroying the last spiritual vestiges reminding of your heinous crimes.

I am sure that before seeing the letter you have never heard of it. The Turkish bestialities described there are documented in many other sources too. You can't admit the bad reality though. And it is not just because you can't see that what is historically documented and what did happen but mainly because admitting it by you in Turkiye would be tantamount to 3 years in jail and many other unpleasant consequences. Living in police state leaves you with two choice - following the aggressive Turkish herd or being eaten by the same aggressive herd.

This is roughly how historical awareness is engineered in Ataturkistan. A popular catchy lie like the notorious 'Turkish historical thesis' is invented, spread and taught as a dogma, no discussions are allowed and persecutions of anyone who disagrees are threatened. So what happens is what we can see reading angry pseudo-history like yours here.

Now, I am sure that you have no idea or interest what the 1st Crusade was all about. Why should you care about the innumerable old volumes written on the subject while a catchy silly slogan spread by Moslem media is such a nice alternative and replaces all the toil needed to learn the history of Europe and the Middle East in the second half of the 11th century.

So why should you care that the 1^st Crusade came as a reaction to killings, kidnappings and lootings of Western pilgrims and to doing to them on the part of the Turks what the emperor had described above as being done to the Greeks by the invading Mongoloid hordes? Why should you care about an Egyptian khalif ordering the destruction of the Sepulchre in Jerusalem? Don't fool us. You don't care about those things in the least unless as a slogan to be hurled against gavurlar to show how virtuous you Moslem criminals in contrast were and how bad those were who came to stop your depredations and Islam-driven banditry and atrocities!

> I am sure that the ambassadors the very same Commenus sent to Piacenza Council in 1095 continued to whine what 'those bad, bad Seljuk Turks' did to them, so that Pope Urban II called for a Crusade in Council of Clermont in very same year.<

You are right in part. But the main reasons were to be sought in the sinister developments in the Middle East after the Seljuks made pilgrimages to the holy land over the Byzantine territories and Syria impossible having flooded Anatolia up to the shores of the Aegean Sea desecrating and destroying churches, raping monks, kidnapping pilgrims, forcibly converting them to Islam. It is such news that understandably put the zeal and the will of the West to stop them ablaze.The Moslems sowed the wind and reaped the whirlwind.

> Meantime please also advise us what happened to Romanos Diogenes who lost Manzikert battle to Alp Arslan...<

Gladly! Romanos IV Diogenes lost the battle due to treason. While his avantguard was moving forward towards the withdrawing Seljuk lines near mazikert the rear troops under Andronikos Doukas, who belonged to the party of Michael Psellos dissatisfied with the upstart emperor and his reforms, abandonned the battlefield and only so the Turks could encircle and exterminate under very heavy losses the best troops with the Varangian guard around the emperor.

But the other troops were still there.The empire was still big, the glory of Basilios II alive and the Greek might still unbroken. It was not advisable to press the wounded Byzantine lion too hard. It was preferable to reduce it to impotence by other means by feeding and intensifying the disunity in the empire.

The Turkish khan knew what was going on inside the Imperial court which dethroned Romanos. He received the emperor with open arms, generously, supported him and let him free...to unleash a civil war that finally weakened the Greeks, depleted their resources and opened by Greek hands the way to Western Anatolia undefended against the Turkish hordes.As always, the divisions among the enemies were the main strength of the Turk.

So this is what happened. Shall I quote the historians upon which the above account is based ?

>Anyhow , now lets put your following comment under the letter you have quoted<

In short it is what the Turkish Moslem beast did and was after wherever he came - be in in Asia Minor, in Serbia or in Poland. Your phrase "we didn't change your language, religion or whatever" belongs to the most outrageous and impudent lies stemming from your barbaric ignorance and deep contempt for all the victims of the Turkish jihad.

It doesn't seem to be very different than the above one with the similar intend , but less political, less intelligent and more personal , don't you think ? <

What I do think is based on other grounds than your cheap propaganda, general ignorance and contempt for historical realities which you display. So according the historical statistics, from the 15^th to the 18^th century more than 1000 000 Poles were kidnapped by the Tatars and Turks from our territories, raped, mistreated, tortured and sold as slaves in the Turkish slaves markets in Kaffa, Istanbul and other Turkish cities. Their fate was horrifying. All these people were lost to the country and civilziation they belonged to. The women raped in Turkish harems bore Turkish brats who later continued the jihad against their grandfathers and greatgrandfathers. It goes without saying that they all became Moslems and spoke Turkish and behaved in all like bastardized Turks. One of the Polish slave Eva even gave birth to Turkish Sultan Ahmet III.

The above is true even to a larger degree about the Russians who lost even more people due to Tatar-Turkish slave-hunters. If this was done to the free kafirs who could retaliate and defend their territories and freedom with armies and fortresses, then one can well imagine what was happening to those defenceless, humiliated, wretched rayas exposed immediately to the rage and avarice of the Turkish beast inside the Ottoman devlet.

By the way, most Turkish sultans were born to women-slaves kidnapped by the Turkish slave-hunters. This is a fundamental historical fact and if you don't like facts on moral and national Turkish grounds then I suggest changing your perverted Moslem "morality" and abandoning Turkishness to spot reality at last before it isn't too late, you Turkish lie machine.

> Meantime Ottoman Empire was a medieval one and this or that way , under supression or not , Christians existed in the empire. Can you show me a single medieval Christian Kingdom where Muslims , even Jews were allowed to exist ?<

My country -Poland. We had the greatest Jewish community starting from the middle ages. Our king Casimir the Great invited Jews to come and settle here. There are still some Moslem villages near Bialystok. These Moslems had fled from recurrent massacres and feuds inside the Crimean Khanate to the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and to Poland . But go deny on "moral" grounds what I have said ! e.g.

Visibly, you want us to forget that, but whover criticizes Turkishness in Turkey in public is jailed for up to 4 years. It's extremely progressive and 'useful' to generate the ubiquitous atmosphere of conformism and complacency Turkey is notorious for.

>Sheer Paranoia or cheap propaganda . Which one exactly?<

Good question asked to a wrong person! Let's look at Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code :

"1. A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.

2.A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.

3. In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third. "

So who is the father of this mad medieval law ? Turkish paranoia or cheap Turkish propganada narcissism being its mother ? Which one does Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code and the trials and actions based on it exactly belong to ?

Could tell me a joke about Kemal the Circumcised Secularist or Allah the Pork-Eater? If you can then I can agree you ahve a rudimentary sense of humour. Otherwise, don't deceive me or anyone else with being funny while you're nothing but a failed clown!

> Trying to see what lies behind ones zipper or what Allah has for lunch may not necessarly suit ones sense of humor.<

I admit that Turkish sense of humour is utterly paralyzed by fear of Turkish jails and jailers awaiting all possible 'denigrators' and doubter of holy Turkishness, virtuous Turkish government, the impeccable Grand National Assembley and the great Turkish warlordism. "Midnight Express" should be a warning to everybody, not just foreign tourists.

> Meantime sterotypes like you usually add 'Drunkard Jew' when they are trying to insult Mustafa Kemal. <

Wrong ! "Korkak Yahudi" "cowardly Jew" is the stereotype Turkish expression. Humoristically enough, insulting Jewishness doesn't constitute a crime in Turkey. But what can I say? Despising Jews is an act of self-evident Turkish virtue and identity. It's an act of patriotism which must be encouraged by insulting those 'korkak yahudiler' in public! The less you can curse your own oppressor , teh more you are encouraged to curse the imaginary ones. while doing the same with Turkishness is a major crime

> You forgot to add 'drunkard' and most probably omitted 'Jew' on purpose due to presence of Jews in this website.<

We know what sort of disease Kemal the Holy died of and what causes it, don't we ? So we agree on his notorious alcoholism. With his blue eyes and fair hair he was hardly a Jew. He must have been Slav in origin.When types like him emerge in Tashkent or Beshkek they are immediately taken to be Russians. True yellow Turks can see what bastardised Anatolians have lost any sense for.

>So what does this makes you , a failed incompetent clown ?<

Thanks for your super-competent remark, dear defective correction machine!

Honesty is the best policy, Turk... I call it what it is.When I see a barbarian bastardized parasitic nation that spreads self-glorifying lies and is after more conquest and enslavement of others, I call what I see. Sacrifificing honesty to pleasing the barbarian Turk is nothing but policy suicide . Feel free to be furious about my not being suicidal...!

>Then be honest.. When you are speaking about bloody mediveal empires or imperialism , speak in general without forgetting to omit others as well including western ones.<

What I am saying I base on rational and verifiable grounds and I tend to highlight differences where there are differences referring to real and not imaginary data. That is why I will never equal jihadist Turkey and Christian Byzantine. I will never compare too hastily medieval France and the Seljuk barbarity. I admire the Spanish kingdoms slowly reconquering the lost territories and getting rid of the Islamic Fifth Column. I hate jihad and all its proponents - the Turks being the greatest of them deserve the greatest hatred of all of us who don't want to see the repetition of the past into which all Moslems want to drag us.

Islam is evil and anything different from Islam is preferable to this primitive regressive death cult.

> Hating certain nations due to personal reasons<

I know it is hard, nay impossible for an Islamo-Kemalist solipsist like you to imagine that objective reality does exist and that it does tend to disagree with and expose the sweet nonsense with which you have been indoctrinated in Ataturkistan and that on the whole there are objective methods of finding out what is tenable and what isn't in history as elsewhere and that by applying these methods to Turkey all things Turkish are exposed and debunked as lies and dissimulations.

But you need some objective education and this is what isn't provided for in Ataturkistan. Libraries in Turkey are censored, depleted of critical literature, sources unavailable, Internet Access often denied, independent publci opinion banned, thought police and fear ever-present ...What sort of 'opinions' can be formed under such circumstances then ?

Well, in your magical world there are great Turks denigrated and dismissed by bad kafirs. How could you imagine that your Turkish "virtues" and "achievements" never existed and what you brought to this world was destruction, atavism, enslavement, regress, primitive savagery, barbarity? You deny the sources, you deny the facts, you blame the victims of your atrocities and brutalities.You NEVER admit your repeteteadly perpetrated crimes.

But what you show thereby is that you don't read history books, your logical education is below any criticism. How can one discuss anything with you? You claim that what Alexios Comnenus said was a lie.Why?Because it exposes you. If he had praised the Turks, you would immediately jumped at this source as a proof of how great the Turks were. But you have no other sources to support your claims except your arbitrary anti-historical assertions. But I agree that you need none in your effort to re-write history to fit into the straightjackets of the mythical Turkish historiography. Today's Turkey has been built on the big lie called "Ataturk". Yesterday's Turkey's was built on the big lie called "Islam". It all stands and falls with it.

> and describing them with desperate and juvenile terms like 'bastardized , parasitic', <

From the letter on the situation in Turkey by Helmuth von Moltke who happened to be a higher intruction officer of the Turkish army between 1835-1839 :

" It is almost impossible for a European to imagine the whole intellectual degradation prevailing in the Orient on all its real scale... A Turk who can read and write is called a "hafiz" – a 'scholar' and the first and last verses of the Koran complete his education...Many Turks in the high state offices can't understand what is written in the letters that come to them in their own language unless these letters are first read aloud to them...The common man is still living still in the firm belief that the Elcis –the foreign envoys come to his country to implore a crown for their monarchs from the sultan." (H. v. Moltke, Briefe ueber die Zustände und Begebenheiten in der Türkei aus den Jahren 1835 bis 1839, Berlin 1841, s.95)

Heinrich von Treitschke has some interesting insights on how the parasitic Turkish system worked [ Turkey and the great Nations 1876 translated into English [in: ] "Germany, France, Russia and Islam', London 1915 p.19-28

"Their Government ... was a theocracy, the Koran the unchangeable statute-book both in political and religious life. High above the whole Empire was enthroned the Sultan, girt with Osman's sword, the Shadow of God on earth, bound to nothing but the word of the Prophet. Under him were his tools, the great officials, who mostly came out of the ranks of the Christian renegades during the brilliant period of the Osman State, and the hordes of the Janissaries, all children of Christians, who had been robbed from their parents at a tender age and then inspired by a Spartan education with the whole ferocity of the Islamic faith. Under them, were the ruling people of True Believers. Lastly, under those were the polyglot herd of Christians, " pigs with similar bristles, dogs with similar tails," condemned to drudge and pay taxes, to purchase their exhausted lives anew every year by means of the poll-tax, the haraj, to strengthen ever anew the army of the ruling race by the toll of their boys...Thus were the Rayahs forced to forge ever closer the fetters of their

slavery with their own hands. Skill in enslavement had here produced an incomparable

masterpiece... Between ...[ the ruling race of the Believers] and the Rayahs stretched a boundless gulf; the extremest insolence of the old French aristocratic arrogance is not within even measurable distance of those feelings of cold contempt and bodily disgust which the

believing Turk experiences even to-day against the pork-eating Giaour.[...]

But where are the traces of the civilising work of the Turks themselves ? What remained in Hungary after the long one hundred and fifty years during which the

Pashas dwelt on the Koenigsburg at Buda ? A few crude mutilations of beautiful Christian churches and the warm baths of Ofen. What now reminds one of the domination

of the Crescent in Greece ? Hardly anything but the ruins of destroyed Christian habitations. The ruination of the system of government did not consist in the brutal

outrages of individual magnates-because the impaling and drowning in sacks, the violating and pillaging, and similar amusements customary to the country, did not,

according to Oriental standard, happen too frequently- but in that indescribable intellectual laziness, in that profound slumber of the soul, which was always peculiar

to the Osmans, even in the days of their warlike greatness, and caused them to appear as barbarians even in the eyes of the Arabs."

So much for my '" desperate and juvenile terms like 'bastardized , parasitic' ".

> and while doing this hiding behind the available global trends created just to suck middle east oil or boost proifts of Anglosaxon corporations may be considered as 'clowning around' by some people rather than an act of honesty.<

Dream on, Turk, just like your ancestors telling each other that the German envoys were there to humbly ask for a crown for a Hohenzollern from the holy sultan and if they didn't it was because of a world conspiracy by wicked gavurlar against the innocnent brave Turkish race! Tell us that Moltke – standing at the head of the Prussian military mission to Turkey - was inventing "desperate and juvenile terms" thus " hiding behind the available global trends created just to suck middle east oil or boost proifts of" Prussians ...

Such peanuts as profiting from Azeri oil in Ceyhan and pushing the mad Pan-Turkic agenda ahead in Central Asia by Turkey is not even worth mentioning to us kafiri dogs! Poor Turks have always been victims of bad Armenians, Greeks, Jews,Germans, Americans, haven't they?

Thinking of what stands behind your words I can't stop appreciating Treitschke's insight into the Turkish soul as valid today as it was under Abdul Hamid. I can perceive "those feelings of cold contempt and bodily disgust which the believing Turk experiences even to-day against the pork-eating Giaour" in your bogus stories, indignation at being exposed and having to do with a gavur dog like myself.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".