take your own advice . . . read some unadulterated history

Submitted by Oliver (United States), Apr 12, 2007 at 21:45

read some history. maybe it would sound different from what you said.

and about your sword. you could've delayed what you said for a couple more responses because you so obviously contradicted yourself so soon that it's not even funny. you blame islam for taking to the sword, then mention christianity's state against it, then you're sharpening the christian sword... again... read some history...

My point is that today islam isn't dealing with weak , easily over-run civilizations - so if your so called 'radical' muslims want to take up the sword they will find a ready responce from this direction.

history would show you, apart from the muslims that you despise, a list of things:

-the history of slavery in christian modern america.

While slavery has been around for many millenium and took on many different modes and forms (none of which were very good for those under the lash) the form of slavery that was imported into the Americas was a direct desendant of the form of slavery found in the pages of the quran an sunnah - read it and weep. The Europeans who took it to the new world were directly influenced by 8 centuries of continual brutal warfare against the intrusions of islam into Europe.

Many of the black people that were taken as slaves to the Americas were captured and sold to the slave runners by muslims who were a muck in Africa. I won't even mention (oh maybe I will) the Christian slaves who manned the war galleys of the Barbary Coast (muslim) Pirates right up to through 1800s. Ever heard the (US) Marine Corps Hymn?? They went to Tripoly to free a number of US citizens who had been take prisoner and were being held for ransom by some peaceful loving muslim pirates - our choices were pay the ransom of let them serve on the war galleys - well, we chose a 3rd option - we kicked their butts and didn't bother to take their names.

-the christians slaughtered an enormous amount of people to take their land by force, for example in america (more than 300 000 000 were killed by the sword), it's not even human to recall this.

While I cannot defend the actions of the Europeans who literally destroyed the native populations of the Americas - I have to abstain from accusing them of being true Christians - Christians In Name Only - perhaps, but certainly not anything resembling 1st century Christians. There may be a 'remnant' of true Christianity present in the world of yesteryear and today but they are not to be considered part of it. But that is a topic for another discussion - if you are game.

-christians entered jerusalem in the 1100s and slaughtered 30 000 people in three days, and then a hundred years later muslims entered and won, but they FORGAVE all christian inhabitants and allowed them to leave safely...

The Crusades (from a Western point of view, of course) were purely defensive in nature, at least from the outset. The muslim governor of Palestine (if I may use those terms) had stopped the passage of pilgrim caravans to the Holy Places of Christendom in Palestine (he was actually pillageing them) and had distroyed at least one place of worship - no big deal for him, I'm sure, but that kinda got the 'pope' a little hot under the collar. After all, the 'Christian' Visi-Goths in Spain were having a heck of a time with the muslim Moors who had invaded Spain in the early 700s and were still causing a lot of trouble - and now this!! What's the 'leader' of the 'Christian' world supposed to do - roll over and play dead??

NO - NO - A THOUSAND TIMES NO - let's raise up an army and go free our Holy Places from the terrible infidel - right on, brother. Just goes to show what can happen when 'religion' gets control of government - islam doesn't have that problem. Well, not everyone that took up the crusade was a pious 'Christian' - no, many thought there might be some plunder to be had in Palestine, certainly none of the true muslims that fought along side mohammad had any thought of plunder. NO - NO - A THOUSAND TIMES NO!!

As for the NO QUARTER raising of Jerusalem - that's Biblical - not very pretty - certainly not acceptable, by today's standards of warfare - but Biblical none the less. Oh, could you do me a favor, quote me just one passage from the quran where allah instructs a muslim to show mercy to and 'forgive' a non-muslim - seems to me that Saladin was more 'Christian' than the frrst Crusaders - hummm, does that mean that Saladin wasn't a good muslim?

I think a major point of confusion is the place of religion and the place of government. In the West, the best governments have usually been kept secular and separate from religion. That doesn't mean that at times there hasn't been periods of heavy handed religious influence within western government or that there is never any religious influence (I mean everyone has 'morals' - right) - it does mean that when a religion gets so powerful that it can totally influence a government - what you end up with is BAD government and WORSE religion. Of course, islam doesn't suffer from either of those symtoms.

Finally - as a Christian God's Word is my 'sword' - it's a two-edged sword - it cuts both ways - me and you.

As an American all I will say is: "Don't tread on me."

That's my concept of the separation of religion and government.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".