Noah, think clearly for a moment here

Submitted by Bryan Jackson (Canada), Apr 21, 2007 at 20:15

If all of Islam was radical, as you claim it is, explain to me how Israel is still here? a billion+ Muslims in the world, 250 million+ live within striking distance of Israel, and yet they still exist, they are still prospering, and there are still 1.5 million Israeli ARABS who just so happen to live in harmony with their Jewish neighbors. This was the case for CENTURIES before Israel existed. The Palestinians many of them are radical, but a large part of that is Israel's racism towards them. They have been beaten senseless both by Israel and by other Arabs for 60 years now, and oppressed people tend to not be the most-moderate of thinkers.

Second example - Turkey. If all of Islam was radical, how does Turkey, which has been devoutly secular despite a 98% Muslim population, stay afloat for 90 years? Ergodan is in a heap of trouble right now because the population knows he's an Islamist and won't see Ataturk's legacy get burned down by Erdogan and other Muslim fanatics. If what you say is true, secular Turkey woulda never happened, let along last for nearly a century. They applied to join the EU, ya know, and they will one day probably get in.

Third example - Muslim populations in the West. Europe has its radicals, but we have them here in America, too. THREE examples of terror have happened in the West from home-grown Muslim extremists - 3/11 in Madrid, 7/7 in London and Theo van Gogh's murder in Amsterdam. All of those were not motivated by Islam either - the bombings were motivated by the Iraq War, and van Gogh was killed for him and Ayaan Hirsi Ali's movie. I would say to those guys - you live among us, you live by our laws, and if you don't like it there is nothing keeping you here, you CAN go back home if you wish to. But most wouldn't even consider this. Why? Because its better here.

Like I said, make Iran such a state. Impossible? No way. And while I said get everyone to stop buying oil from Iran, it wouldn't take everyone. Just the EU, Japan or China alone would probably do the trick, and the sanctions are working because it IS undermining Ahmadinejad. Iran felt the bettering of relations and the positive effects on all Iranians that followed better relations. Bush's "Axis of Evil" speech was a bad idea, especially since Iran helped us in Afghanistan. Let's use that tactic again, it was working last time.

Shove on the Iranians, saying "you be friendly with us, and we will be friendly back. We are not the devil, we are not out to give you guys grief." Think Iran will listen? I do.

You are saying my tactic won't work, but then you endorse my tactic. I think there is a difference here. I say encourage them to fix their problems, and help if we can. You say treat them like vermin and make them change. Take you path and they will change alright - but they will grow an ingrained hatred for us, and when you get to that level they will attack anything they can hit. Imagine a wave of Osama bin Laden governments from Indonesia to Morocco. You want that? A few of those governments ARE nuclear-armed.

The only way your path will work is if we destroy them, all of them. You gonna be able to stomach murdering a sixth of the world's population? If you can, you need mental help Noah. We can beat these guys without going to the level of Nazi style massacres. The world has shrunk, and all of us know it, and we have come to realize that not every Muslim is an Osama bin Laden believer. You obviously have the opinion that they are all evil and that a showdown is coming. I don't believe that for a second.

The world has changed for us, it is changing for them, and most of those terror groups don't give a s--- about what we do, they care about what their governments do - and aside from secular-minded Turkey, what Muslim-majority nation has an elected government? Indonesia now, but that's after 30 years of Suharto, his massacres and massive, systematic corruption. What do ya bet Indonesia grows to be like Turkey? What do ya bet once the Mullahs are gone Iran will take the same path?

Democracy in the Islamic World is coming, and Islam is in its period of uncertainty, just as Christianity was 400 years ago. They are living through the same issues we have. If we let the psychos win, and you are suggesting just that, than it will result in the ugliest genocide in the history of humanity, one which would likely destroy everything modern society has been building for the past 200 years. I'm not going to take that road if I don't have to. Fascism is dead, Communism is dead, we can make Radical Islam die as well, and Communism was not defeated by bombs and guns, neither will Radical Islam.

To me, make these people know that we will work with the smart ones among the Muslim world - just as Dr. Pipes says.

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