Bryan, enough of your propaganda already!

Submitted by Noah Wilk (United States), Apr 24, 2007 at 18:11

Bryan wrote:

"Noah, if the entire Muslim world was after Israel even the vaunted IDF couldn't stop them."

Sure they could. Superior weapons, superior attitude, superior training, and NUKES! If doomsday came, Israel would wipe out Islam.

"Now add on Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Libya, the Gulf States, Pakistan......tell me the IDF could smoke that many forces? They couldn't. Pakistan's nuclear capability would be enough to almost finish the job themselves."

Only at the cost of nuclear annihilation at the hands of the Israelis. Even the Muslims are not stupid enough to invoke a nuclear holocaust of that magnitude.

"You clearly aren't paying attention to the human rights situation in the Occupied Territories if you believe that, because its total crap. For Israeli Arabs living in Israel you are correct, for Palestinians you most certainly are not. And the Jordanians comment is wrong - its the other way around, most Jordanians are displaced Palestinians."

You're clearly ignorant of historical fact. There is no such race as a Palestinian Arab. All Palestinian arabs are the same race and culture as Jordanians. It was only after the 1960s when the PLO started engaging in its Goebbels-level propaganda campaign that the myth of "Palestinians" as a distinct Arabic race came into being.

"I cannot comment on this other than to say you are a truly ...to be making such assumptions. Israelis are good people, but Palestinians aren't?"

Bingo! You don't see Israelis strapping bombs to their children's torsos and telling them to go murder innocent, unarmed women and children, now do you? No. The Israelis comdemn killing innocent bystanders and put themselves at risk in order to avoid it whenever possible. The so-called Palestinians on the other hand purposely target innocent civilians. They are terrorists.

"Tell me how a man like Baruch Goldstein is a good person, and all of the tens of thousands of Palestinians who have never picked up a weapon in their lives aren't?"

They support Hamas and other terrorist groups, hence they are just as guilty as the terrorists themselves. I do not draw a distinction between those who plant the bombs and those who fund the ones who plant the bombs. They are both terrorists.

"As for the vote for hamas, it was that or the corrupt, self-aggrandizing, hopeless at governing Fatah."

And the so-called Palestinians could not form a truly peaceful, civilized party because why? The whiney excuse that they didn't have a choice does not cut it. The so-called Palestinians simply proved my point - that Muslims cannot and will not ever install a truly peaceful, reform-minded leadership.

"Hamas gets stuff done for the Palestinians, they aren't just a terrorist group."

And you believe that makes it ok to support them? Give me a break! Muslims constantly whine about how they are powerless. They live in a culture of Pervasive Victimization Syndrome. Everything they do is predicated on being a "victim" and on "not having a choice". They love playing the role of the victim because it draws unwarranted sympathy and support from the ignorant people around the world.

"If you did your homework before making such a comment, you woulda known that."

Clearly, you're the one in need of homework.

"Police states do not get 250,000 people in the streets protesting against an Islamist prime minister. That doesn't happen in police states."

Oh, you mean like how the police state in Iran or the police state in Iraq under Saddam could not gather hundreds of thousands of people in the streets? Try getting a clue about history and current events.

"And I am not ignorant of their atrocities, tell me how many nations haven't committed human rights abuses?"

Typical and irrelevant Muslim debate tactic. Just because others have committed atrocities does not make it ok for Islam to be committing atrocities.

"Tell me something here. If even 5% of Muslims are terrorist types, why punish the other 95%? Because you assume they are all gonna go after you? This comment is absolutely nothing but undiluted racism, because the fact that 30 million Muslims live in Europe with only a handful of terrorist acts - and of those, only THREE have been committed by home-grown Muslims - means that they CAN, and DO, live in civilized societies."

You are both ignorant and delusional if you truly believe that only 3 terror acts have been committed by Muslims in Europe and elsewhere, or that the vast majority of Muslims there are innocent. Every Muslim who donates a dollar to CAIR pays for bombs that kill innocent people. Every Muslim that donates his Islamic tax to his mosque or madrassah is guilty of funding terror, of funding Islam, which is a terrorist death cult.

"Many of them came here because they cannot live in their own societies or they will be killed. So, send thousands of people back to be slaughtered?"Bull. Most of them are NOT coming here to escape their own societies, but rather to undermine ours. If what you say is true, then why do so few of them ever attend pro-reform rallies here in America, or in Europe? Why then do none of them speak out and denounce the terrorists overseas? So yes, I say send them back.

See, Bryan, you can't have it both ways. Either the vast majority of Muslims are violent terrorists, which would validate your asylum claims and prove my claim of the inherent violence of Islam, or (as is often claimed by others) most Muslims are inherently peaceful and the "religion of peace" is simply being perverted by a very tiny minority of radicals. In which case most Muslims are cowards since they refuse to stand up to a tiny minority of bullies (even when they are beyond the reach of those bullies) and hence they are reprehensible and do not belong in America. Either way, they don't belong here. But you cannot have it both ways. So which is it? Are Muslims violent radicals or pathetic cowards?

"Most of these nations do not tolerate dissidents, and if they have nowhere to go, tell me how do you expect those societies to change? Faced with such a situation, they have one solution - violence against the oppressors - which racists like you would just use to make a point about them being violent people."

The only people "oppressing" Muslims are their fellow Muslims. And yes, I expect them to stand up to the violent ones and remove them, by force if necessary, from power. Install a truly peaceful, secular, freedom-loving democracy. Once again, if your claim is true that most Muslims are peace loving, then why can they not remove the violent minority? I seem to remember a small handful of colonies breaking away from a far superior force in the 1700's and establishing the greatest, most freedom-loving nation on earth. Ring a bell? Why can't the Muslims do that? Because they do not value freedom or peace, that's why!

"And how do you propose to make 40 million people leave the West, anyways? Shoot them if they don't? Good luck trying to support that in our world. And what about those people reacting with violence? You gonna massacre communities because of a few brain-dead fools?"

If it were up to me, anyone resisting would be killed in the street in cold blood, yes. Absolutely. And I would have no compunction against doing the job myself. You seem ignorant of the fact that this is a war of survival, and surviving is the only goal, at any cost. Muslims in America and other places in the West have proven that they are faithful only to their death cult, not their host countries. They have proven unwilling to denounce terror, to reform their religion, or to organize against it. They are the enemy.

"It's narrow-minded ... like you that breed terrorism in the first place."

Typical Muslim reaction of casting the blame on others. Tell me, do Muslims EVER take responsibility for their actions, or do they ALWAYS play the role of the victim? Don't answer, it was a rhetorical question.

"A person, regardless of their religion, does not wake up in the morning and decide he wants to kill a couple hundred people with a bunch of bombs as it was in Madrid."

True. First he must be indocrtrinated into hatred by his Muslim parents grandparents, clerics, politicians, etc. Then, when he is still in his grade-school years, he dreams of becoming a shahid and murdering innocent people, as most Palestinian children dream of doing. I posted an article elsewhere about a Palestinian child psychologist who documented this fact. So you prove my point. Islam is the poison that warps the minds of young Muslims.

"I am a realist, I would support any actions taken against the terrorists, but I will not EVER support tarring hundreds of millions of people with a meter-wide brush because of a few people who defile their own beliefs."

Your claims of Islam being "defiled by a few people" are ignorant, dishonest, and outright propaganda lies. Every bit of evidence in reality contradicts your absurd claims.

" I have paid close attention to everything you have written, and it scares... me. As a Christian, part of our religion is to be righteous, and not to force our brothers into more violence."What do you mean "our" religion? I'm not Christian, nor do I believe in that "turn the other cheek" nonsense. I prefer Kruschev's "slap me in the face and we'll kick your head off" (roughly praphrased) policy much better.

"What you are saying is force them to live in the 10th Century without any help at all, and every time some shiteater tries something stupid kill a whole load of innocent Muslims in retaliation. "Once again you flaunt both your ignorance and dishonesty for all to see. Nobody is forcing Muslims to live in the 10th century except Islam. islam is the force that keeps them rooted in the 10th century, not America or the West or Christianity or any of the other convenient "oppressors" the Muslims so love to blame.

If Muslims want to see their own worst enemy, they need only look in the mirror.

"Yeah, that'll really help our current situation. It'll just make all of them hate us,"Are you truly so ignorant that you believe they don't hate us already? Perhaps you've forgotten how they paraded in the streets after the 9/11 terror attacks?

"after a while the voice of reason will disappear"There is no "voice of reason" in Islam. Never was, never will be. They only understand violence and force, so that is the language we must use.

"and at that point, war is totally inevitable, and then under your scenario we will have no choice but to murder all of them."

War is already beyond inevitable. The war between Civilization and Islam is already happening. Try keeping up with current events, why don't you?

" As far as I am concerned, you are out of your mind."

Frankly, I don't care if delusional people think I am out of my mind. My thoughts and views on the matter withstand the test of both history and reality. People like you, on the other hand, are never able to back their claims with proof, nor are they ever able to respond to my challenges. They cannot prove me wrong. What does that tell you?

" Most of the world's Muslims have put aside religious hatred."

Really? And does that explain why less than 1/100,000th of 1% of them showed up for the latest "reform Islam" rally? Does that explain why there are no truly free, peaceful, tolerant Muslim nations anywhere on earth? I'm afraid reality itself is laughing at your collossal ignorance.

"You are just thinking they are all savages. "I don't just think it, I know it.

"That is the main distinction between you and I. If some dirtbag kills people here through terrorism, I'll shoot him myself. A few will always hate us, just as we have Christians who turn to violence to make a point. You are using one standard for Muslims and one for everyone else - and that is obvious racism."

Do you have any inkling of just how stupid that paragraph you wrote is? First of all, how does opposing a RELIGION (or more accurately, a death CULT) constitute racism? Islam is not a race. Try getting your facts straight if you hope to engage in debate with the intelligent people around here. Second, you do not see Buddhists, Christians, Taoists, or Lutherans flying airplanes into skyscrapers, strapping bombs to themselves in order to blow up innocent unarmed children, or cutting the heads off journalists, now do you? Your comparison reeks of either ignorance or dishonesty. I'll leave it to you to admit whether you're a liar or a propagandist.

"Read my above comment. A few screwups will always hate us, just as a few Christians will bomb abortion clinics and synagogues in the name of Christianity. "

That's an absurd, inaccurate, and dishonest answer which has been shot down a thousands times in the last few months on this forum alone. Go back to the Muslim Book of Propaganda (co-authored by Uncle Goebbels) and try a different tactic already. It's getting really tedious shooting that one down time and time again.

"And I am armed as well, Noah."

So you should understand the point then. If we are both armed, neither of us is in danger from the other unless and until one of us draws his weapon. At that point it is a fight for survival and killing the enemy is the only solution. If one person does not draw his weapon, the other person has no need to draw his and therefore we have peace. Now do you understand?

"There is a reason why these reformers haven't become very vocal - because they get killed if they do! "

Typical Whiny Muslim Response #4: We're Afraid!

Sorry, that excuse doesn't cut it. First of all, Muslims in America do not die if they speak out. Did any of the few that attended the conference in Florida last month get gunned down? Second, as Ben Franklin explained, those who give up essential liberty for temporary safety deserve neither. Cowardice is not an excuse. Third, your second claim contradicts your first claim. First you claim that most Muslims are peaceful, then you claim that peace-minded Muslims are always murdered by their fellow Muslims. It can't be both ways. Cowards or terrorists. Which is it?

"None of the Muslim states allow such protests, you know that. "

If Muslims had either guts or integrity, they would overthrow those governments then, as others who valued freedom have done. Americans fought the British in order to establish the country with the most freedoms in history. Poland stood against the Soviet Union. Why can't the so-called "religion of peace" ever manage to install a peaceful government, if the vast majority of Muslims are peaceful? Your very claims contradict themselves continuously, as these claims always do for Muslim apologists.

"So explain to me again how we are to know whether they are reforming things or not? What are you expecting to see as proof they are changing themselves?"

You mean to tell me you're so ignorant that you actually need that spelled out for you? Good grief! We know that there is no reform because 90% of all terrorist groups are MUSLIM. Because 90% of all wars involve MUSLIMS. Because virtually all international terrorism is committed by MUSLIMS. Because all oppressive Muslim countries are run by MUSLIMS. Because the people least likely to attend rallies to denounce terror or reform Islam are MUSLIMS.

Are you seeing an obvious trend there, Bryan?

"War of survival? There are more of us than them, and most of them don't believe in terribly different things than we do. Survival is a gross exagguration."

More people does not mean anything when we have weapons that can take them out by the tens of millions at at time and leave the rest to die of radiation poisoning, starvation, and disease without so much as risking one of our soldiers. However, allowing them to infiltrate and subvert our society and sneak in nukes is a terrible threat to our way of life. Ban, deport, isolate, deter. If attacked, annihilate. That's my mantra. That's the only workable solution.

"We will always exist. You probably don't know that 75,000 Jews live in Iran and Ahmadinejad knows that. But have they been killed? Nope."You will not always exist. If Islam keeps pushing, and God forbid they push the wrong buttons, they will die en masse, courtesty of American nuclear weapons.

"As for Detroit, I live in a Toronto suburb, my best friend lives in Dearborn, Michigan - ground zero for Muslims in America. Toronto has made multiculturalism one of its trademarks - with quite impressive results."Impressive if you're a Muslim seeking to subvert America, perhaps. An abomination to the rest of us."Dearborn's biggest problem is that any of the old rivalries from the ME got brought here. That will inevitably happen regardless of where a person is from, and Detroit is already probably the biggest dump in the Western Hemisphere."And with that, you once again avoid all mention of the problems in Michigan and elsewhere, where Muslims are subverting and changing the culture here. Avoidance. Another typical Muslim debate tactic, and one we see often!

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".