Mansoor: Life on earth is a bogus examination

Submitted by Plato (India), May 5, 2008 at 09:44

Mansoor, you write:

>>Plato...you are stuck in your blurred vision and rejecting any spark of light coming towards you...Lets dissect one by one the points raised by you...<

"Why did Allah wait for 600 years "without caring who is doing what and who is saying what and the system is running on its own track.."?"

>>Good question, but understand this logic...When you are entering into an examination a certain time limit say 3 hours or 4 hours are You then wait for the result where you are totally in dark that what the examiner do to your attempt...whether he will be impressed or find it correct or sometimes scratch it as wrong...You get the result after sometime and even if you are very confident that you may get good marks it is possible that you are not given the grade according to your expectation.<<

Now focus on this..."did you find any examiner pulling back the copy from you if he finds you attempting to answer the question wrongly....?" No. he would not do so.whether you do mistake or not..he will let you complete your attempt....!!!<<

Mansoor, when you take up these silly earth-based examples you are demeaning your maker and making him look silly. Muslims harp on life on earth being an examination that Allah has set to grab the ones who don't meet his standards to feed his waiting inferno.

So let me focus on this silly examination that Allah has set us. Open your eyes and look around you. Childern are born and die within seconds, minutes, hours, days and so on. The examiner pulled back the test paper before these souls had much of a chance to even begin to read what was in it. Why did Allah not let them complete their attempt to solve the test questions?

Where do these souls go to, heaven, hell (or purgatory)? If Allah did not want to test them properly why did He give them a glimpse of this world. Does the Koran tell you anything about the fate of the early-dead or unborn children?

Take another look around you and you will find people who are classed as idiots, brain-damaged since birth, paraplegics who can do nothing but stare into space, people in mental asylums who are not in control of their minds. What kind of examination are these people undergoing? If a crazed man kills a person does Allah, who created him as a madman, punish him for the crime?

If they cannot be held responsible for their behaviour what are they doing on earth?

No one lives for 600 years. Many generations would have come and gone during the period Allah was asleep when his servants were running riot on earth by disobeying the messages He had sent. Why did He let those generations suffer ignorance about His message and bless only people born after the final messenger had delivered His message to end all messages?

Now let me ask you again a question I have asked several times. Does Allah know the future or not? If He does why does He want to put human beings through the farce of a test when He already knows the result i.e exactly the number of marks we will score, whether we will get high, low or fail grades. What kind of a silly examiner is it who though knowing exactly the marks I will score still insists on wasting my and His time by putting me through the test? And more importantly since I am told the examiner already knows what I am going to write why should I bother with preparing for the exam??

>> On the basis of this logic...Allah has put us to a very delicate test which would end with our death...600 years you said is no big deal...it was just a period of test of those who were assigned the noble responsibility to guard the book of divine revelation..And we all know what they did to Bible and Torah..!!!<<

A delicate test??? A test whose result Allah already knows. I showed you in the previous statement how silly such an examiner sounds. What pleasure does Allah get in watching people do exactly what He knows they will do?

>>Wiping out dinosaurs and calming earth's climate can be seen with positive aspect. The point raised by you as if Lord is confused (Naoozubillah) is purely human mental error..Just tell me...sometimes you change your home garden's setting and remove some plants and rearrange them or even pull some trees out to bring it a refined look...this is what we practice and see in normal life....Sometimes we completely redo our drawing rooms or bedrooms or sometime the whole house...it does not prove that we are confused?

In fact we praise each other on finding new form and new look to our house...Allah has command to create, change, remove, rearrange...according to his desire...so whats the problem in your mind?<<

Mansoor, you make Allah sound like an inexperienced landscape artist or a finicky housewife who have to make several trials, and build mockups before being satisfied with their work. You are questioning the great all-powerful Allah's powers. Remember Allah says in the Koran that He has only to say ‘Be' and it is, 3:47.

That, my dear Mansoor, as you ask is ‘the problem in my mind'. Now tell me what is the ‘mental error' I have made. You better be careful, Mansoor, if an Imam finds out this is what you think of Allah's powers, you will have a fatwa allowing your blood.

>>Regarding Iblis's defiance your knowledge is extremely weak. Iblis was a Jinn...not an angel...correct yourself...immediately.<<

Mansoor, let us look at Koranic evidence for Iblis being a jinn.

Surah 7:11 Pikthal: And we created you, then fashioned you, then told the angels: Fall ye prostrate before Adam! And they fell prostrate all save Iblis, who was not of those who make prostration.

Surah 15: 30-32 So the angels fell prostrate….Save Iblis…

So also Surah 17:61, 20:116 , 38:74-75

Surah 18:51 And (remember) when We said unto the angels: Fall prostrate before Adam, and they fell prostrate, all save Iblis, He was of the Jinn….

You have all those verses with Allah ordering the angels to prostrate themselves before Adam and that Iblis disobeyed. You have one verse that says clearly that Iblis was of the jinn. Did Iblis have a special invitation from Allah to attend that assembly of angels? Or is it the confusion which is the trademark of the Koran that is on display here?

In all the verses Allah is telling the angels to prostrate and if Iblis was not of the angels how could he be accused of having disobeyed? Your favourite Indian, Zakir Naik brings in the vagaries of the Arabic language to sort out this Koranic confusion. Something called tagleeb whereby if the majority is addressed the minority is also supposed to be included. To begin with this would mean the language in which Allah spoke to everyone is Arabic. That could not be as he spoke to the Israeli prophets in Hebrew and the many other prophets in some unkown languages.

This would also argue for the Koran being an unclear confusing book despite it claiming several times that it is a clear book in Arabic, 41:44, 22:2, 14:4.

I will go with a the Bible and Torah which confirm your scripture and vote for Iblis as a fallen angel.. Do you have any evidence that the verses of the Bible and torah which confirm Iblis as an angel are among the corrupted ones? There is also the evidence of the many verses in the Koran where Iblis is included among the angels against one in which he is said to be a jinn.

>>I have already told you that Jinns have free will as human enjoy. Jinns also had their own prophets...but human have not been given knowledge about them as both are completely different entities.. physically and practicably.<<

This would mean that there are at least two Korans preserved in Paradise. One that was given to Muhammad and another for the jinns unless of course the jinns also possess an exact copy of the Koran you possess. That brings up interesting possibilities. There would have been a prophet called Muhammad among the jinns and it will contain a passage allowing a jinny Muhammed to marry his cousin-daughter-in-law or telling his wives to stop squabbling and so on. Very interesting! Let your imagination fly, Mansoor, there are so many interesting possibilities here.

I suppose their being different entities is the evidence in the Koran for the existence of parallel universes and other dimensions which physics talks about!!

After writing this response I clicked on the link you have given and found this:

"Say (O Muhammad): It is revealed unto me that a company of the Jinn gave ear, and they said: ‘Lo! it is a marvellous Qur'an, which guideth unto righteousness, so we believe in it and we ascribe unto our Lord no partner." (Al-Jinn: 1-2)

"And when We inclined toward thee (Muhammad) certain of the Jinn, who wished to hear the Qur'an and, when they were in its presence, said: Give ear! and, when it was finished, turned back to their people, warning. They said: O our people! Lo! we have heard a Scripture which hath been revealed after Moses, confirming that which was before it, guiding unto the truth and a right road. O our people! respond to Allah's summoner and believe in Him. He will forgive you some of your sins and guard you from a painful doom. And whoso respondeth not to Allah's summoner he can nowise escape in the earth, and ye (can find) no protecting friends instead of Him. Such are in error manifest." (Al-Ahqaf: 29-32)

This would mean the jinns are ruled by the Koran revealed to Muhammad. Now this raises some interesting questions. Jinns must be Arabic speakers for them to understand what was being revealed to Muhammad. They will also have to accept a human, Muhammad as their prophet.

And isn't it funny, when they read the Koran they will find Allah telling Muhamad that they eavesdropped when Gabriel was revealing the Koran to him.

LOL.To me it sounds as though Muhammad is using scare tactics (the Arabs have believed in jinns even before Islam) to get his listeners to accept him as a prophet like Moses.

>>http://www.islamawareness.net/Jinn/fatwa_prophets.html<<

>>Several times I have pointed out that free will is given to understand on the basis of available facts about your faith...

You have never explained how it is possible to have free will when your Allah already knows every detail of your behaviour even before your parents know you will be born. But let that be.

>>Deniers or Kafirs are those who defy even if the truth arrives to them...Quran provided ample signs, logics and facts...but denying that would be total loss on the day of judgment. The simple example is person like you who is attempting hard to find loopholes (which aren't any) and raise ill logics to prove that Quran is wrong!!<<

What truths have the Koran revealed? That slavery is okay. That women can be thrashed by her husband. That the prophet can take booty. That the prophet should not take prisoners but should slaughter them. That the prophet can marry almost anyone he wishes including his cousin-daughter-in-law. LOL

What signs are there in the Koran for Allah's existence? The bees building hives, the mountains beings pegs to prevent the earth from shaking, the rain, stars created as missiles to shoo away the devil and so on. LOL

What logic is there in the Koran? That Allah has revealed verses which can abrogate other verses. That there are allegorical verses in the Koran of which no one knows the meaning except Allah? That there are letters at the beginning of some verses whose meaning is disputed to this day? LOL

What are the facts in the Koran? The sun setting in a muddy pool. The sun and the moon in a race across the sky. The bees enjoying all the fruit of the earth. There being an impenetrable barrier separating salt and sweet water. LOL

>>You say the identifying of Lord as a hide and seek game? no you are wrong it is a test....take it as a test....when you turn test into game your seriousness would turn into hunting time pass.<<

You Lord Himself says this life is a game. 6:32 Naught is the life of the world save a pastime (pass time to you) and a sport…

Allah repeats Himself in 7:64, 47:36 insisting that this life is a pastime.

And in 6:70 He castigates people for taking 6:32, 47:36 and 7:64 seriously by considering life mere play.

>>Just understand one thing...even if you shout as you always do, you cannot change the system of Lord which is strong and not at all flexible when it comes to principles and rules prevailing since centuries.<<

Mansoor, you are now sounding as confused as your Lord.

>>Do you think you are powerful enough to challenge Allah? no you are caught in your own mad logics...and then...eventually when the test time will be over...you will run for your life..but the angel of death will drag your spirit out...<<

Why would I want to challenge a phantom of your and your prophet's imagination? You have questioned my sanity several times but I am insane enough to go about challenging a phantom of someone's imagination.

I would rather challenge a real person like you and which is what I am doing. I am challenging the content of your imagination which has been filled with fairy tales by imams in mosques and madrassas. I have no objection to many of those fairy stories. What I object to is your barely concealed hatred for religions other your version of Islam. You don't like Christians, Jews, Hindus and atheists because the book of fairy tales your imams always referred to says that these people will be tortured in hell for ever and that you should not have any friendship with them, 58:22.

>>I am positive that at the time of your death...you would slap your face..and scream that you lost every logic every trick...and nothing can help you at that time..be sure...to remember my words.<<

You draw a nice picture of how I will go to my death. And like another Muslim on this forum you have some angel tearing out my soul without giving another moment to repent for my unbelief while I writhe in pain. Such morbid scenes seem to give people like you so much pleasure, the same pleasure with which your ustads told you what the angel of death would do to you for straying from Allah's path.

Your ustads have such wonderful imaginations. Book publishers should use their talent to write blockbusters for our children. Their literary techniques seem to leave a life long impression as has been proved by the billion or so believing Muslims.

>> Plato...stay in touch..i am not tired...<<

Mansoor, you have Allah's helping hand. I do not. I must confess I am getting tired of expending so much energy on you. I keep going not because what I say is going to get past the iron curtain your trainers have drawn around your mental faculties, but the knowledge that other readers, Muslims and non-Muslims, will get to know typical Islamic thinking on various issues and make informed judgment for themselves. Hopefully it is making a difference.

Regards

Plato

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