Taj: Koran demonstrates utter contempt for umbelievers

Submitted by Plato (India), May 9, 2008 at 08:58

Taj, you write:

>>I don't think you are dumb or un-intelligent, nor does the Quran render these attributes to "infidels"...<<

I appreciate the compliment from you. But having read the Koran I can quote umpteen verses that show utter contempt for infidels like me. I will give you just a small sampling.

1. 006.039 YUSUFALI: Those who reject our signs are deaf and dumb,- in the midst of darkness profound: whom Allah willeth, He leaveth to wander: whom He willeth, He placeth on the way that is straight.

2. 008.022 : For the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb,- those who understand not.

3. 017.097 : It is he whom Allah guides, that is on true Guidance; but he whom He leaves astray - for such wilt thou find no protector besides Him. On the Day of Judgment We shall gather, them together, prone on their faces, blind, dumb, and deaf: their abode will be Hell: ….

4. 2:89 The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. (And this cursing and abusing goes on verse after verse)

>>I have never stated that their actions couldn't be questioned - but any questioning should not be presumptuous or prejudiced...<<

You have not said so explicitly, but Muslims resent any questioning generally and you have qualified that the questions cannot be presumptuous or prejudiced. Othman was sword-happy and like the Queen in Alice in Wonderland wanted to have the head of anyone he thought was being offensive. Abu Bakr started the ridda wars to bring backsliders back to Islam. Ali skimmed some war booty in the form a beautiful girl and had sex with her before proper distribution was done.

Am I allowed to question actions like what I have mentioned above without being accused of being presumptuous or prejudiced??

>>as for Muhammad, there are some actions that can be "questioned" - he himself questioned his own actions at turns, however there is a faithful assumption that his actions as they pertain to religious matters are/were guided by God - yet even then they were questioned and at many turns these (respectful) questions were considered and answered.<<

It would have been helpful if you had given one or two examples of what you claim were questions aimed at the prophet regarding religious matters. (Aisha is once known to have sarcastically said that Muhammad's God was eager to give him revelations that suited him or something to that effect). The Jews and some hypocrites were always aiming questions at the prophet and debunking his claims. And see what happened to them.

>> BTW, the Banu Quraiza were not massacred,…<<

They were not?? So were they executed? Did not 600 to eight hundred Jews die after being beheaded in a single night?? Did they come back to life a la Jesus? Or is it another of those stories concocted by the Jews themselves to defame Muhammad?

>> Aisha was actually a teenager at marriage,…<<

Was Aisha then a liar or did she have a poor memory? In either case what value can you place the hundreds of hadith attributed to her.

A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: "Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) married me when I was six years old, and I was admitted to his house at the age of nine." (Sahih Muslim 3309).

Bukhari vol. 7, #88:
"Narrated Urwa: "The prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with Aisha
while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she
was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his
death).""

Of course Muslims ashamed to face this fact have thrown doubts on these hadith, and consequently call into question the works of Bukhari, Muslim and others.

>>…and many critics of the Prophet lived unharmed, only those who committed sedition were punished or executed...<<

This is the meaning I found for sedition in Dictionary.com:

1. incitement of discontent or rebellion against a government.

2. any action, esp. in speech or writing, promoting such discontent or rebellion.

Yes powerful persons remained unharmed like some of the hypocrites. But weak persons especially the old and women who could not defend themselves were assassinated NOT PUNISHED OR EXECUTED. For punishment there should be a trial. In your prophet's case he had constituted himself prosecutor and judge leaving the dirty work of execution to those eager to gain his favour.

In the case of Asma bint Marwan ( a nursing woman) and Kab bin Ashraf (an old poet – Ibn Ishaq pg 364-367) it was the prophet asking his henchmen who would kill them since they had harmed him in verse. Asma a mother of six was only criticizing the prophet in verse for having murdered an old man. The prophet praised Allah when the old man's head was thrown at his feet. The assassin of Asma fearing heavenly retribution was assured by the prophet the murder was a non-event (two goats would not butt their heads over her killing – Ibn Ishaq)

If what kab bin Ashraf and Asma did was sedition and calls for execution then why do Muslims object to the killings by the government in Chechnya, in Kashmir and other rebellious Muslim regions?

>>I would not call your list either comprehensive nor a list of "faults"...<<

I never said it was comprehensive. This is what I had written: ‘You should at least have given us some of the merits of Islam. Let me list a few of its faults:'

>>In address to them:<<

Women condemned to a lower grade than men, 2:228 is not a condemnation - it is an acknowledgment of the reality that males are created a degree stronger physically than women and thus are given more responsibility,…<<

The reality is that Allah is saying that He has created humans unequal by making men superior physically than women. He seems to have forgotten that He has created a good number of women physically stronger than men. Most African and Scandinavian women would be stronger physically than many south asians, Filipinos or men of the pygmy race. Is one supposed to run a test of physical strength to decide who will be given more responsibility??

4:34 is the notorious verse that lets men beat up their wives if they are dissatisfied with their behaviour. In the verse the Exalted, Great Allah puts men in charge of women because they excel them (there is nothing in it which says anything about physical strength). This would perhaps mean men are also superior in intelligence. Allah has created a creature i.e. women, who should be considered sub-human and to be cared for by men (the prophet in his last sermon says women are like animals or prisoners possessing nothing!).

>>… such as having to spend their wealth to support women and not vice versa (the commentary to this verse is another verse 4:34)<<

The Koran itself decrees that women inherit only half. The Koran dictates they get less and so make them dependent on men!

>>2. the ban on alcohol, etc, being inocuous is a matter of opinion - however, while an outright ban does not occur, the Quran certainly and singularly establishes the virtue of abolition and makes the freeing of slaves and act of devotion as well as expiation<<

Sure it is a matter of opinion. Is holding and dealing in slaves also a matter of opinion? My dear Taj, have you forgotten that the Koran is a book for all times and all places? Have you forgotten how slaves are acquired? They are war booty, which means Allah has legitimized the acquisition of slaves, including women and children. The Koran is most certainly NOT establishing the virtue of abolition, it is doing exactly the opposite. The Koran legitimizes the use of slave women as concubines (remember the ‘right hand possession' thing?). How naïve do you think readers on this forum are?

>>3. 18:57 is not about God preventing from understanding the Quran...what is mentioned the "communications" or "signs" God gave - which could be anything...After the person rejects this, then they are "sealed"..notice that according to the next verse, this "punishment" is not eternal as you think...<<

This is the verse in full: 018.057 YUSUFALI: And who doth more wrong than one who is reminded of the Signs of his Lord, but turns away from them, forgetting the (deeds) which his hands have sent forth? Verily We have set veils over their hearts lest they should understand this, and over their ears, deafness, if thou callest them to guidance, even then will they never accept guidance.

I suggest you read this verse a little more carefully, especially the underlined part. After the person rejects the signs of Allah what does He do? He sets seals on their hearts lest they should understand this, the Koran.

Here is Ibn Kathir:

(Truly, We have set over their hearts) means, the hearts of these people,

(Akinnah) means, coverings.

(lest they should understand this,) means, so that they will not understand this Qur'an and its clear Message

Ibn Kathir is saying the sealing of the heart is to prevent their understanding of the CLEAR MESSAGE. Since the message is clear Allah has to seal their hearts to prevent the unbelievers from understanding its message. Ibn Kathir is clear enough for me.

>>4. Not sure how you find 9:111 a "flaw" - as the verse itself points out, martydom is a virtue in all the Abrahamic faiths...sacrificing the very thing you were given for the sake of the One who gives it is not something to be fearful of...sorry<<

Here is 9:111 in full: 009.111 YUSUFALI: Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Qur'an: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme.

Just a ‘flaw'? This verse goes to the heart of what Islam is all about. Read the last bit I have underlined. Allah is telling you that you have concluded a sale with Him in which you have got a bargain. Read the first sentence where Allah says He has purchased something from the believers. The currency with which Allah makes the purchase are the pleasures of paradise. And what is it He has purchased? The verse makes clear it is your life (or that of your victim)

>>5. That certain quranic verses have hidden meanings is generally considered simply a sign of Allah's position of absolute knowledge - the object of such examples is meant to instill humility in believers as well as drawing the line in the sand, so to speak, differentiating us as the creation and God as the Creator...<<

If Koranic verses have hidden meanings that only Allah understands then what is it doing in a book meant for humans? Unless the Koran also told us which the verses with hidden meaning were this would mean that Allah is trying to mislead us with those verses.

To show us His position of absolute knowledge does Allah have to put in verses in the Koran whose meaning is known only to Him? Can you name one verse whose meaning humans should not try to understand?

Regards

Plato

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