Mansoor: Here is my tafsir on pee and other sordid matters

Submitted by Plato (India), May 5, 2008 at 10:14

Mansoor, you write:

>>Plato, why didn't you quote the full Hadith regarding Camel Urine? You always do that to obtain petty gain rather than providing ample opportunity to others to understand the clear message. Let me quote the Hadith in full for you (no matter you have already read that and tried to hide the part of it).<<

Now that you have quoted it in full I will do a tafsir on it.

The reason I truncated the original was to limit it to what it says about camel urine. You had accused Gandhi of being a pee-drinker, which he was not. I am sure he would not have been insulted by the charge anyway. He also had distinctly odd ways of treating himself and his friends (though not with pee, I believe).

Narrated Abu Qilaba: "Anas said, "Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu'), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)"

>>First of all, let us clarify the reason and story behind the prescription. Some people had become very ill at the time of the prophet, and were suffering from an unknown illness. Their bellies had swollen and they were not in a fit state. Hence, the prophet said to them, that they would find a cure in the milk and urine of a camel and so he sent them out to an area where camels were grazing. These men went to this area and drank the milk and urine. Sure enough, just like the Prophet said, they were cured and became fit and healthy.<<

You prophet clearly believed that camel urine had curative properties. Morarji Desai (not Gandhi) also clearly believed that his own urine had health giving properties and at least in his case you could not dispute it as he lived a very healthy life right into his eighties. In the case of camel urine we can't be sure whether it was the milk or pee that did the job or a combination since you prophet executed them in typical Islamic style.

>>However, at the same time, evil thoughts entered their minds and they decided they wanted the camels for themselves. They therefore killed the owner, and made off with the camels.<<

Can you rule out the possibility that along with curing them of whatever ailed them physically the camel pee also gave them criminal tendencies? Some medicines do damage the brain. There is no indication in the hadiths they had any criminal antecedents.

>> When news of the murder reached the prophet, he sent an envoy to capture the men, and when they were captured and brought before the prophet, capital punishment was meted out to them.<<

It was not just capital punishment, it was inhumane punishment.

>>Having read this story, what do we conclude from it? The answering islam team would have us believe that this Hadith means that drinking camel urine is permissible in Islam. This is INCORRECT. The real meaning of this Hadith is that if a person needs to consume an impure and impermissible substance as a cure for an illness, and no other reasonable alternative is available, then it is permissible. In all other circumstances, camel urine is prohibited.<<

Why do you make fun of a pee-drinking Indian then? If he was convinced that pee would cure him of cancer, diabetic wounds and so on, is human urine also not permissible?

The meaning of the hadith is not about impermissible being made permissible under extraordinary circumstances. It is about capital punishment. Urine is only mentioned casually. But the killing and the punishment is elaborated upon in excruciating detail.

>>By the way, did you find any Hadith about people drinking camel urine in normal circumstances???? There is no point Urine is declared sacred in Islam...the disinformation is all done by the ugly minds of the disbelievers. Islam even allows "haram" (strictly prohibited) things to eat...when no other choice is left and you may fear of dieing in starvation in any incidental circumstances.<<

A search of Bukhari for ‘camel and milk' (http://www.usc.edu/cgi-bin/msasearch) brought these hadith up 002.026.723 003.031.209 005.057.004 005.058.256 006.060.147 007.062.117 007.069.522

They do not mention camel milk but sheep milk. So does this mean that camel milk is only for when you are sick?

No one has suggested that camel urine has been declared sacred nor has any pee-drinking Indian said that their own urine is sacred. But I can let you in on a secret. Many Indians do drink cow's urine thinking like the prophet thought about camel pee that it has curative properties.#

>>Regarding Achhoots, Wow!! You said yourself Mayavati and Karunanidhi are Achhoots...so you approve their cast is discriminated.!! Why running away from reality? Why can't you declare with strong chest that Cast system is the glory of Hinduism? Why you twist the question and run away from answering it? why? tell me why?<<

I tell you that the people of the highest caste come and touch the feet of this ‘untouchable' and you write back that I am approving of caste discrimination. I suggest you go through my post a little more carefully instead of instead getting its meaning all jumbled, as you have done so often.

The reality, my dear Mansoor, is that in the India of today the people you call achoots are beginning to get the upper hand. We had one president who was a low caste too apart from chief ministers of states. Our Suprem Court Chief Justice today is of low caste origin.

You keep repeating that I think the caste system is the glory of Hinduisim. I am sorry, I hate to make fun of people with poor understanding of the English language, but you leave me no choice since you keep insisting that we in India think the caste system is something to be proud of. Go back to any of my posts and show me any sentence that can be even remotely construed as such. Mansoor, please don't run away from answering this.

>>You never answered about treatment of widows in India, why would you? because you cannot hide your shame when truth is constantly insisted to be revealed and in response you have floated baseless charges regarding Islamic punishment to women...<<

I did not answer (you asked Proud Indian) because I was not asked directly and you again have no clue to what is happening to widows in modern India. Remember Indira Gandhi, the lady who got more than 70,000 of your bullet eating soldiers to surrender within a few days of the 1971 battle being joined. She was a widow. She never shaved her head. She wore coloured clothes. And men cowered when she rasied an imperious eye-brow.

Have you heard of the most powerful person in India today. She is a widow, Sonia Gandhi. She has a head full of hair and goes about in designer sarees.

If Indians disrespect for widows do you think we would let them lead us??

You knowledge of India is outdated by several generations. I hope I have updated you on the condition of our lower castes and widows of whom you are so very solicitous.

>>It is correct that woman should prove that either she was raped or her intention was also there. Usually a woman resists while being raped...and naturally she receives wounds or gets injury....It is a very delicate issue and Islam does not punish a woman unless sufficient evidence is available.

I would again repeat!!<<

If you hold a gun to a woman's head do you think she will resist?? Why a gun, which woman would not be terrified of a man with even a knife? And it seems you have not read and understood what Islamic law says about a woman's evidence. Tell us plainly, Mansoor, does not this law require the woman to prove her innocence rather being innocent until proven guilty. And even if it is proven she had sex willingly why should she be stoned to death barbarically??

>>Hindus don't have any right to discuss Islam because the moment they start discussion it will be hard for them to hide their face from crimes attributed to Hindu religion, the Satti, the shaving of head of widows, turning widow to only white dress and not even allowing them to wear a sandal or shoe..<<

Can you answer me in relevance this time?<<

You want relevance? Honour killings have already been discussed here and you are silent about it. Genital mutilation of girls also has been mentioned without any answer from you. Pregnancy is considered evidence of consensual sex if the woman cannot prove otherwise and is stoned to death. What are all these compared to shaving off ones hair, wearing only white and going barefoot. You keep harping about sati. How many satis have happened in modern India? How many honour killings and honour rapes are happening in Pakistan alone in the twentyfirst century leave aside Arab Muslim countries.

Now something of even more relevance. Your Koran allows shutting a woman away for lewdness. 4:15 As for those of your women who are guilty of lewdness, call to witness four of you against them. And if they testify then confine them to the houses until death take them or Allah appoint a way.

Now read what Allah has in store for men who commit lewdness. 4:16 And as for the two of you who are guilty thereof, punish them both. And if they repent and improve, then let them be.

Are you not ashamed of Allah for being so blatantly biased against women?

>>Islam gives sufficient command to men to bring order in the family and society. Every organization has a Chief Executive, his decisions are to be honored and are never challenged or disobeyed because once this practice is encouraged..that person would loose the grip on the matters...Similarly men have been given charge of the family and responsibilities to ensures smooth running of the system.<<

Don't beat around the bush. Allah has given charge of women to men because they are like prisoners/animals you own as Allah's apostle said in his last sermon. That is what all that gobbledygook you have written really mean.

>>You cannot compare Zam zam with guttered, polluted, poisoness Ganga...beware..of attempting this kind of statement again!!.<<

Why not? You must have read dhimmi on the condition of zam zam in times past. Oil money has only recently cleaned it up.

>>I know you would disagree again...but nobody can stop me from expressing my clear view point.<<

Go ahead, keep giving us your ‘clear' view point on all things Islamic. Many on this forum are kept entertained by it.

Regards

Plato

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