Doing "better", huh?

Submitted by Straight_Talk_Luigi (United States), Jun 27, 2008 at 21:08

Let's start with your information on crime in Morocco. Have I said that there is no crime in Morocco?

No, but you've implied many times that the Middle East and North Africa are some kind of paradise compared to America.

We were talking about a specific type of crime.

It did not mention rape as part of that information either, not that I don't believe that it happens, but please re-read my post. I don't like repeating myself.

No thanks, once is enough, and I have more reliable sources of information.

It talked about sexual harassment, and that was just with tourists. It suggests to me that their women are treated even worse, which of course means rape.

You don't make me angry; you have said nothing that I have not heard before.

Then maybe it's time to listen, and I'm not really trying to make you angry, and I've already explained to you why.

Let me ask you, what are the Biblical punishments for crime? The Sharia in the Bible I call it. It is a well kept secret that the Bible's punishments are FAR,FAR, more serious than in Islam! I will give you a chance to search that out for yourself.

Now it's my turn to say I've heard this all before ^_^

Nura, the punishments you refer to are in the Old Testament. I am a Christian-Catholic and am not bound by the Old Laws which Jesus of Nazerth abolished. I get this argument all the time from atheists and gay rights advocates.

If you're issues are with the Old Testament, my advice is to consult the Jews. They know much more about it than Christians, and it is rarely discussed in our Church sermons. The only theory I can give is that God was so strict because Israel had no social infrastructure. There were a mass of people led by Aaron, Moses and later Joshua, in the wild, inhospitable desert. Treachery was possible at any small turn of events, as we are told with the golden calf.

Still, you won't find Jews who use the old punishments. As I told you earlier, I have only evidence that Nigeria, Iraq and Iran use stoning to death as a punishment. If you have something else to share, but all means do so. Until then, though, your claim is entirely lost on me.

Jesus changed the law? That is not true!!! He clearly stated that he DID NOT come to change the law but to fulfil. Christians should not be eating pork, should still observe the Sabbath, all of the old Laws still stands! According to the Old Testament you could be killed for Fornication! A hundred lashes don't sound so bad now does it?

It does, because it is not for men to judge others, that lies with God alone. Jesus did change the law, and the testimonies are clear in the Gospel and Acts and the following Letters written by the Saints.

Christians are supposed to observe the Sabbath, yes, this is a very strict rule in my Church (all the more reason for all to attend).

If you choose not to eat pork, Nura, that is fine. However, it is permissible in Christianity.

I have no interest in converting you or anyone else on this forum. I do not benefit from your enlightenment!!

Because you refuse to see Jesus for who He truly is.

If you were to see the truth it would be of your own benefit. I reply to you because I believe that allot of people in this country are capable of sound thinking when presented with ALL the facts.

You are not always presenting facts, Nura. When you do, it is done in a biased manner that clearly caters to Islam.

The propaganda in this war isn't any different from the past wars. What amazes me is the ignorance!! I am American, so I have a demographic background that does not make me completely bias.

I would say you still are biased. Being an American has nothing to do with it.

In addition, Muslims do not actively convert people! What an amazing statement! I will say that we should all be calling to the people, but it is Christian Missionaries who actively try to convert people.

Aside from the fact that most Muslim countries will not allow missionaries to actively"work" in their countries, why don't you start with the people in this country!

That's an interesting point, but Christianity is actually growing in terms of numbers in America, so I guess it's pretty constant.

Do you realize that despite the propaganda that Christians are choosing Islam in the West!! All over the Western world.

Well, that happens with globalization. It works both ways. Muslims are also embracing Christianity, in spite of the unfair, discriminatory regulations imposed by dictators.

You go to desperate nations with food and a Bible as if it is YOUR works makes believers.

No, the Bible IS the word of God. We are just the messenger.

Muslims know that it is ALLAH who chooses believers. Those that he chooses can never be taken away.

So then why are people who turn away from Islam labeled apostates and in some cases have a bounty on them like some animal?

So all those Muslims who were tortured to accept Christ in the past means nothing! Islam and belief is in the hearts, not what the mouth utters.

I'd like to see an example of that! Truth be told, Jesus would never condone torture for the conversion to Christianity. It must come from the heart and from free will.

I think you want me to argue that European nations-states practiced Christianity to the letter? Hardly, Nura.

You said that it is the restricted freedom of missionaries in Muslims countries as being the reason for low Muslim conversion.

No, I said it was harder to convert Muslims in some cases, mainly because of the laws against it, not because of a lack of willingness of Muslims to convert, in the last 20 years, that is.

By the way, I have read old periodical information from missionaries back in the 1900s who stated that Islam is resistant to Christian conversion. The Muslim world was colonized by Europeans, which would have been the prime time to convert Muslims. Why was it not successful when Christians had authority in the land?

The Europeans were more interested in resources and strategic vantage points, I would argue. Sure, missionaries went along, but it was never really the prime goal of any European nation-state during the colonial area.

Think of it like this, Nura: Missionaries accompanied explorers, NOT vice-versa.

I will tell you why. Just as my father was once a devout Christian, he found that Islam is irresistible to the sane. It connects all of the truth in the previous scriptures to form the unadulterated truth. I question any Muslim who converts to Christianity if they were ever Muslim.

I hope your Father converts back to Christianity, and I will pray for him. The reality is, Nura, Muslims are converting because they want hope and to feel the presence of Christ in their lives.

See, in Islam, Every person must choose it. You are not Muslim because your parents are. It is a choice that each individual must make in their lifetime.

That's pretty much in every religion, but the reason why so many Muslims follow their parents is because they risk their lives if they don't. So to many of them, leaving Islam isn't even an option, even if they wanted to. Yet for some their faith in Jesus is so powerful that not even torment or death or family ostracization can stop them. I commend these brave souls!

No true Muslim would ever convert; it's just not possible that someone will go from a religion that simply makes sense, to a religion that people with the highest of knowledge cannot understand.

God may not wish for us to understand all that there is. Jesus teaches us that it is not for us to know the times or seasons of the Father.

A lot of professed true Muslims have converted to Christianity, and many more will do so.

If you can't understand the Trinity, how do you expect me to believe in it?

That's the wrong attitude, Nura. Believing in Jesus or God will probably always come down to faith.

The Trinity is pretty basic to me: Three in One. Jesus, the Holy Spirit and God are really all One and the same, just different expressions for different reasons. God (Allah) is infinite and can do whatever, whenever. Why do Muslims need to restrict His abilities to justify their religion?

Lack of knowledge? Are you saying that one must understand the universe itself to believe in God? Nura, the key word is BELIEVE.

Mary is a God in Catholicism!! This has been a recent change to the masses, actually. The Quran speaks on this over a thousand years ago.

Considering that Islam is just one of many off-shoots of Roman Catholicism, I shouldn't be surprised.

We do not see Mary as a godess. We pray to Mary, and we ask her to intercede on our behalf so that we may avoid getting what we truly deserve.

The Church does make some changes to its masses. Sometimes, it just depends on the Pope and the need to do so.

---

Note: Opinions expressed in comments are those of the authors alone and not necessarily those of Daniel Pipes. Original writing only, please. Comments are screened and in some cases edited before posting. Reasoned disagreement is welcome but not comments that are scurrilous, off-topic, commercial, disparaging religions, or otherwise inappropriate. For complete regulations, see the "Guidelines for Reader Comments".