For Nura/1

Submitted by Straight_Talk_Luigi (United States), Jul 14, 2008 at 16:08

Throughout the history of religion there have always been deviations. Syncrestism is an aspect of that deviation. This is why in Islam we are very strict on practicing the religion as we were instructed from the prophet. Unfortunately, the religion that was sent with Jesus(PBUH) shows very little remnants in Christanity these days.

In terms of moral behavior, I agree. However, certain secular traditions were adopted in congruence with Christianity for the purposes of converting others. We were given that flexibility. You could argue, Nura, that Christmas and Easter are MORE about candy and gifts than Jesus, but most people don't even know that eggs and trees were used in previous ceremonies, so you're attempt to show that Christianity somehow worships pagan gods is ridiculous.

Even more importantly, Nura, the religious significance of those celebrations has been eliminated. No one I know makes scrolls for Thor or anything else like that.

None of the Christian teachings were comprised? You made an oxymornic statement.

I don't think so Christianity is flexible. Just recently the Pope came out with new sins for the modern era derived from the teachings of Jesus.

The holidays that you refer to are NOT exclusively celebrated by Christians. The logic you seem to have regarding this entire issue is reversed.

How can the incorporation of pagan beliefs preserve the religion? Let's say the intention was to save the pagans, why was not the traditions stopped later rather than making them a foremost part of the religion? Doesn't the Bible speak against Christmas trees?

Jeremiah

10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.

10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.

10:5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

You can interpret this however you like, but it is clear that the adornment of trees was a pagan ritual that was shunned. How then can Christians reclaim it?

Again, Jeremiah is in the Old Testament. During this time, such activities were attributed to pagan gods.

Ah, secular festivities is what they are now? I hardly call Easter and Christmas secular. Despite your perceptions, you agree that Christians allowed paganism in their Church in order to win the popularity of the masses. Do you realize what you are saying? Let's take it a step further and say that the Trinity was also incorporated to win the popularity of the pagans!

Then I think you ought to look at Japanese advertising lingo during the Holiday season, because it's all secular. Listen, everyone I know no matter what religion they are have Christmas trees and Easter eggs.

The Christians were making the most of their priveleges from God, who said to Peter: You are my rock, on this rock I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Whatever you bind on Earth shall be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loosed on Earth shall be loosed in Heaven.

Why is this so hard to believe when you know that this has happened in Christmas and Easter? It was actually a pagan King, Constantine, who "converted" to Christianity that actually created the doctrine of the Trinity. In addition, any Christian who did not accept this doctrine was killed.

Actually, there is Scripture evidence to support the Trinity and the idea was first discussed at least in the 2^nd Century, before Constantine's time.

The reason why certain aspects of the faith changed were because once the Byzantines converted, Christianity was no longer just a "cult." Its teachings would now need to apply to the affairs of a nation-state, the Byzantine Empire.

There is more to the egg in Easter than you stated. Actually Easter was named after the goddess of spring or rebirth. There are actually many names for this goddess depending on language, most commonly called Eastre, however Ishtar is also a known name. This goddess was known for her love of rabbits and she is believed to have come to earth in an giant egg. When these ancient Babylonians were celebrating this holiday they would decorate eggs and have a feast. Ever wondered why rabbits lay eggs on Easter?

I have really did allot of research on pagan rituals that exist in Christianity from communion, to speWeaking in tongue. It's really amazing.

Well, why stop there? Why not include belief in an afterlife of limbo, hell or heaven or belief in the supernatural? You're only carrying the argument this far because it puts Christianity at a disadvantage vs. Islam.

I guess you're referring to Pentecost? Well, the difference is that particular passage in Acts of the Apostles can be interpreted as each man understanding the language of another. This would certainly be much more complex than what the pagans have witnessed.

Who is Cupid then? If this started out as a religious holiday, why is it now celebrated with alcohol and fornication? Why don't people go to the church for this day? Valintines Day is nothing more that an ancient pagan fertility festival.

As I informed you earlier, Catholics have Church services every day of the week. The Valentine's Day holiday does not come from an ancient fertility festival. Professor Jack Oruch of the University of Kansas notes that before Geoffery Chaucer's writings, there was no mention of a "valentine".

The Cupid is just a symbol, sometimes interpreted as a cherubim, one of the seven classes of angels.

You're trying to tie in ancient Roman and Greek gods and a holiday celebrated by Christians and non-Christians alike.

Lots of holidays are celebrated with alcohol and fornication, Nura. Just like those brothels have on the Arabian peninsula. Such is the way things are. But let's face it, you're busy debating me, a Catholic who goes to Church every week, than to address these issues. Why is that?

Because the Islam that you follow isn't about morality. It's about spreading itself, even at it's own expense. Oh yes, Nura, you have been using da'wah on me the entire time.

Did the church condemn these names? They were named by those who called themselves Christians.

The Catholic Church is slow to condemn. Pagans sometimes (and still do) mix religious beliefs and it's hard to track, but as far as official teaching, there is no belief in the goddess Eastre. The rituals, as I have said three or four times now, have NO religious significance. It is merely a tradition.

Where did this understanding come from? If it an authentic Hadith ,I can understand the reasoning considering what the Greeks and Romans did! Islam protects it's believers from idolatry.

I haven't read the Hadith, but my guess at the reaction of the Danish cartoons suggests that naming something as large as a planet after Mohammed isn't a good idea.

Islam is a product of idolatry and Islamism not only defends itself (often unjustly, I might add), it goes on the offense as well.

He would probably say why nuke Iran then?

As far I as know, there are no plans to nuke Iran, just plans to keep Iran from getting a nuclear bomb.

I'm not so sure you understand that the Iranians have some pretty ambitious plans in the wings for their fellow Sunnis if they ever get a nuke. It's not just Israel they are after. It's making the Arabs pretty nervous, to tell you the truth. But I guess since you are under the protection of American soldiers, you're not as worried as they are.

If Muslims are converting at an unprecedented rate, then the worlds problem is solved! By your testimony we should all be Christians in the next decade especially with the Missionary "Bible For Food" programs.

Well, not having food is what happens when you charge 70 times the fair value for a barrel of oil and waste the profits on mosque construction and literature on terrorism all over Europe instead of feeding your fellow Muslims.

Say, isn't that one of the Five Pillars? Amazing how the oil-rich Muslims seem to ignore this rule. Perhaps they are above the Islamic law that they invest in?

We are happy to help feed the hungry, Nura, and happy to bring Good News to those who suffer.

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It would be safer to say that he knew of Christians, Catholics are a sect. In fact, a Christian King in Ethiopia gave Muslims asylum when they were being persecuted. Why? Because he said that they worshiped the same God. He later became Muslim.

I always enjoy how Muslims rejoice at the idea of a new convert to Islam, but get very frustrated when I mention that there are groups of former sheiks and imams who recruit other sheiks and imams to convert to Christianity.

Despite the fact that our prophet knew Christians hardly proves that Islam came from them. It's really not a great mystery how Islam came. It is simply a succession of religion since Adam, hence the similarities. They came from the same source, that is why there are similarities.

Adam had nothing to do with Islam.

Really? What is the New World Order then?

A former wresting organization ;)

Why must Israel exist?

An international mandate made after World War II of UK possessions.

Why were Jews given that land?

GIVEN, you say? I've heard some different points of view on that!

It's all based on Biblical prophesy!

Maybe. So, why doesn't the Qu'ran talk about it then?

How else could they steal the land and justify it?

First you say given, and now it was stolen? That doesn't make sense, Nura.

Why was Bush called The prince of Magog when he visited Israel recently? The Bush scroll was given to him. You should read it it's very interesting.

http://www.templeinstitute.org/megillat-...

Wow! that's really wonderful. You should look into how such a great job their doing with Al Aqsa. We have a mosque in Jerusalem because it is the site where my prophet went to heaven during the night journey. How is this showing that we are better? How many Churches and synagogues are in Jerusalem? Please, what kind argument is that?

The only reason Churches and synagogues exist there are because the government is tolerant to allow it. Too bad I can't say the same for Iran or Saudi Arabia where the Bible is banned.

Where? Where's your proof?

How can I prove it to you? You can't even seem to accept the fact that most of the violence in Iraq and Afghanistan is Muslim vs. Muslim.

That is simply a misrepresentation. Haven't you heard anything I said? Muslim governments support Western influence!

Um, yeah, see, that's because they have high population growth in jungles and deserts and, well, you see, they need our food or they'll starve and there will be civil war, and the oil wells would be under siege and we'd all be living in the stone age. No more internet for Luigi and Nura.

That and even with all their madarassa conditioning, they just can't resist the might temptation of power and greed and lust that Jesus did.

They are all puppets working for perks.

You could argue it both ways. With their partnership with the oil companies, they've got the world by the you-know-what now.

Are they going to allow a challenge to their power and existence by the Islamic awakening of their people? People who ask "Why are we not supporting are brothers" People who ask "Why do we have a King when it is against Islam?" Come on, politics is politics. These government could care less about the Sharia. Things are not always what they seem.

They sure seem to care when Afghans start going to Catholic mass or when a Bible shows up in Saudi Arabia.

Sharia law is much more than capital punishment. In fact, there are only a few situations that require it so why do people like you continue to talk about Sharia as if you know what it is!

That's because I do know what it is.

Sharia Law govern every aspect of Islamic life. It gave women the right to own property and inherit.

It gave children,animals,and the poor rights.

Not Ayesha, and certainly not any women in the Middle East I know. I see that the poor in the Middle East continue to suffer even while under sharia law. In fact, some of the poorest areas of the world have sharia law.

It prohibits forcing women to marry a man she does not want.

Define "forcing". Nice try, but why don't write more about them not being able to marry Christians or Hindus or about how it's okay to beat your wife when she's naughty.

I could go on for pages on aspects of sharia law which is very dense. Corporal punishment has a very,very, minute part is this law. Convenient to ignore everything else.

I'd say that is what you are doing as you attempt to discredit Christianity on here.

Corporal punishment is all the riot these days with the stonings of adulterers and gays.

He should be happy now! The crisis is over.

Apparently not. Still stirring up trouble in the Hindu Kush.

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