So, "Fazal", still playing obtuse. I know you don't need proof for yourself, but hope to play to the audience ...

Submitted by kman (United States), Oct 12, 2010 at 23:59

These stories make me sick, so I could only bear bringing up a couple, but this is common practice in Pakistan where Christians are forced out of most work places and have to resort to desperate measures to stay alive.

On January 26^th of this year in Lahore, Pakistan a 12 year old Christian girl, Shazia Bashir Masih, who had been a house maid for a Muslim attorney, Muhammad Naeem, was tortured, raped and killed. The mother was forced to let her daughter work because of starvation and poverty. The local police refused to do anything about it until local media finally forced it. Even then, efforts were made to bribe the man out of his trouble.

On March ninth of the same year and in the same city, Kiran george was burned to death after her employer and his sister poured gasoline over the young girl and set her on fire. She had been employed as a house maid for several months and had been repeatedly raped by Muhammed Ahmed Raza. On March ninth she threatened to call the police bringing on the incident.

We'll go onto your "question" about 9/11. Why don't we attack the "Arabs"? The attackers were traced back to point of origin. That point and their supporters were attacked. Having been from several different countries not all of whom were terrorist supporters, the U.S. went after their financiers and leaders - Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban for beginners. What is the excuse for all the dead? So, in your country you have no familiarity with what war does? I'm supposing you can read the news as well as anyone, so I won't belabor all the circumstances. You know the answer, anyway.

I've heard the "strive" tactic many times to explain "jihad". Doesn't wash. In practical reality, in every nation controlled by Islam, the "control" has been accomplished via militant forces. I've explained all this before about what is going on in Europe, thre Middle East, etc. I have read documents by the Muslim Brotherhood which is bringing together ALL factions of Islam in the U.S. to "organize" jihad of every form to bring about the destruction of American civilization and establish the United States as a base for the Muslim thrust against the rest of the world.

Some of your questions seem to assume I support all actions carried out or neglected to be carried out by "my" government. The character of "my" government has been deteriorating for many years but has finally reached its despicable pinnacle in the Liberal administration that my ignorant fellow citizens voted in.

I don't come here to necessarily justify anything my government or country does. I originally responded to you concerning your initial claims about the "peaceful" nature of Islam. You are the one wanting to bring up all the "my government" does this, that, or the other stuff. That said, I feel much safer choosing my own method of worship and god in my country any day of the week.

If I were to email this kind of dialogue from your country, I would eventually be ferreted out and "dealt" with in whatever way your own Muslim citizens, government or police force wished to mete out. It would be decidedly "unpretty".

Let's cut to the chase and quit haggling over minor issues that evade the bigger ones you attempt to evade. I give you much credit for intellect, education, and some level of awareness of the world and both our nations, so let's skip the evasive maneuvers. I haven't yet given you credit for honest and objective evaluation of anything. I don't make excuses for my government or my people. "Pride" over national origin is irrelevant to me because I don't allow anyone to make excuses for their behavior including my own.

I give high honors and respect for a few people who do honestly chuck the national pride and the "my people" versus "your people" thing. If I think a people as a whole need to be informed of their error, then I say so. Your people live in a very dangerous and area of enforced ignorance. Education is denied for the most part. Most Muslims have no clue whatsoever of anyone else's take on truth, religion, god, or political system. I can't help but notice that tens of millions of Muslims leave their counties of Islamic origin because they can't stomach the nature of their own people, their own Muslim governments, and failed economies. At least here they have found an ability to earn a living and a measure of peace and quiet. Lately, not so much of the latter now that the truthful core Muslim principles have been playing out in the world.

If you would like anymore samples of Islamic atrocities in the world either in the past few years or for the last 14 to 16 centuries, I can provide mountains of the stuff. I didn't invent my religion, have it forced down my throat, or presented as the only alternative available. I have been free all my life to investigate all of them, chose to be an atheist for 14 years, and eventually had the God of all truth ambush me with the absolute facts of his Holy nature. He is a God of love who calls fallible humans to fess up to their own sins and help others to peaceably find the truth. It calls for personal sacrifice and risk at the hands of those who hate for the sake of hate, kill, maim, torture, and rape. A god of the latter natures or who espouses those natures for his believers, doesn't appeal to me. My God calls His people to task when they get out of line instead of excusing any behaior at all simply for screeching "Allah Akbar".

I have worked hard not to hate Muslims. They make it extremely challenging everywhere they set foot, control, or intimidate. God doesn't not tell his people to lie or accept a lie from anyone else, so I call the shots as I see them. My derision is for Islam mostly, not the Muslims who have it forced down their throats or are lied to about the entire story of how Islam plays out globally.

I have heard from Muslims on the Dr. Pipes forum who gloat over how they are going to rape and ravish our women. I can't wholly blame them when that is a part of the doctrine danced in front of their eyes. Again, it is the doctrine of Islam - dual and ever changing depending on the circumstances of the moment.

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