Happy Eid to you Hamad,

Submitted by Jan (Belgium), Oct 24, 2006 at 08:37

I wish you a happy Eid too, Hamad as I wished this for the muslim part of my family,

As you may know, muslims make good wishes to each other on the occasion of Eid. The wish that I make for you is that you will find time to study Islam more carefully in the coming year.

I wil give some comments here:

YOU WROTE:

I don't know what hate site does maggie get her information from. Aisha in most histories I read was 12-13 when the Prophet got married to her with the blessings of her father. The first wife of the prophet was Khadijah, who was 20 years older than him, 40 years old . He was very sad when she died, and he never praised a woman like her. Aisha, his wife never spoke but praise about him. and when he got married to her and his other wives he was past his prime. Looking back, he loved and married a woman much older than him, and was always praised for his kindness and morals, I don't see how he can be a sexual predator as you claim.

MY COMMENT:

The hate site is the Sahih hadith of Bukhari: Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

Narrated Hisham's father:

Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married 'Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

What is YOUR source? Only the Quran is more reliable than Bukhari and Muslim.

According Western AND mainstream present-day muslim norms, sex with a 9 year old is paedophilia and such people are put in jail both in muslim and non-muslim countries.

OR DO YOU PROPOSE TO DECREASE THE AGE OF MARRIAGE TO 6 YEARS AND SEXUAL MATURITY TO 9 YEARS FOR GIRLS?

The reason why he did not marry another woman while he was with Khadija was because he was living off her fortune. When he married her, he was a nice but poor fellow. He was not yet in a situation to marry other women because he risked being kicked out by his wife and by this lose his job and the wealth of his wife.

YOU WROTE:

Hallucinations? Seizures? Then, how come he was always known in Makkah and asked to resolve conflicts and safe-keep other people's property. No one would entrust an unreliable man as you describe. Their attitude only changed after he called them to stop worshipping idols.

MY COMMENT:

Hamad,

You have to know that there are 2 Mohammads: one in Mekka and one in Medina. Both of them are real and are described in all islamic sources.

The Mohammad of Makka that you have learned about is as you describe.

The Mohammad of Madina is a monster. His temper of revenge started when the Quraysh did not accept his message and on this he started to insult the people, their religion, their Gods and their forefathers including his own forefathers of whom he told they are burning in hell. After he started to insult his own forefathers, he lost the protection of his clan because actually he committed treason and he was kicked out from Makkah which would be the same now. If i went to Makkah in 2006 and started to shout that Mohammad was a false Prophet, people will not kick me out, they will chop off my head. Shortly after moving to Medina, the shy trustworthy, reliable guy became a political and military leader and turned into a robber, war lord, killer and rapist. One famous instance was his rape of Safiya shortly after he killed her husband in Khaybar. Muslims call this marriage and emphasize how honoured she was to marry the guy who just killed her husband. Nowadays they would rightly call her a whore, muslims call her umm-al-mu'minin, mother of the believers.

YOU WROTE:

Jan, One of the problems facing Muslims is their division into Sunni, Shi'ites or whatever. I am not Sunii, nor shiites, I consider myself a Muslim, and I would say most Muslims don't even care if I was Suffi, or Sunii as long as I respect them. Bukhari and Muslims? There are many contradictions in their narratives, the only Hadith you can be sure of is the one who is narrated in all books. Even in Bukhari and Muslims there are Hadiths that are considered 'weak' by Sunnis. Prayers and all main practices are widely agreed upon by Muslims and their Hadiths are clearly authentic. I am not dismissing Hadith, I am just saying that only very few can be authenticated. Heck, a child can tell whether a Hadith is authentic or not by using a little brain power.

MY COMMENT:

For sunnis, ALL hadith collected by Bukhari and Muslim ARE reliable. That is why they are called sahih. Though quite a few hadith really disgust me, especially the one in which the prophet encouraged his men to rape married women though they were hesitant (and which became permitted by 4.24). Of 600 000 hadith that they collected, they kept less than 10000 that they thought were reliable. Without Hadith, there is no Islamic law as the Quran is far from clear on most legal and religious aspects. The Quran does not say how many times you have to pray, how you have to pray, from which age you have to beat your son when he does not pray, how much a thief has to steal to have his hand cut off, what are the rules for fasting, zakat, ...

Are you claiming that Shariah is based on quake-sand because few hadith are reliable?

Do not say that because most muslims agree how they have to pray that the related hadith is reliable. A hadith is reliable when it has a perfect isnad and does not contradict the Quran.

YOU WROTE:

You say that your point is many Muslims just believe all the nonsense. Then you tell me that Islam is in fact, nonsense. Which one is your point? Someone asks what we're doing about the nonsense as Muslims? Most of us live our lives in peace, and teach our children, relatives, and friends how to be peaceful and tolerant. The Quran and Hadith support us

MY COMMENT:

You as a muslim take the Medina part of Mohammad and the Quran. Bin Laden, his mujahidin and other muslim terrorists take the Medina part and especially surah 9. Bin Laden and his guys are correct because the later part cancels the earlier part as indicated in 2:106.

Following ayahs call for killing of polytheists and fighting against Jews and christians unless they become muslims. The ayahs are supported by the hadith indicated below. You clearly reject those teachings, don't you?

9.5
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

9.29 Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

In the first book of Sahih Muslim, Faith - IMAN, Chapter 9 tells the following:

Chapter 9: COMMAND FOR FIGHTING AGAINST THE PEOPLE SO LONG AS THEY DO NOT PROFESS THAT THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS MESSENGER

There are 7 hadith with the same message:
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Book 001, Number 0029:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Huraira that when the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) breathed his last and Abu Bakr was appointed as his successor (Caliph), those amongst the Arabs who wanted to become apostates became apostates. 'Umar b. Khattab said to Abu Bakr: Why would you fight against the people, when the Messenger of Allah declared: I have been directed to fight against people so long as they do not say: There is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was granted full protection of his property and life on my behalf except for a right? His (other) affairs rest with Allah. Upon this Abu Bakr said: By Allah, I would definitely fight against him who severed prayer from Zakat, for it is the obligation upon the rich. By Allah, I would fight against them even to secure the cord (used for hobbling the feet of a camel) which they used to give to the Messenger of Allah (as zakat) but now they have withheld it. Umar b. Khattab remarked: By Allah, I found nothing but the fact that Allah had opened the heart of Abu Bakr for (perceiving the justification of) fighting (against those who refused to pay Zakat) and I fully recognized that the (stand of Abu Bakr) was right.

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Book 001, Number 0030:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people so long as they do not declare that there is no god but Allah, and he who professed it was guaranteed the protection of his property and life on my behalf except for the right affairs rest with Allah.

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Book 001, Number 0031:
It is reported on the authority of Abu Huraira that he heard the Messenger of Allah say: I have been commanded to fight against people, till they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe in me (that) I am the messenger (from the Lord) and in all that I have brought. And when they do it, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

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Book 001, Number 0032:
It is narrated on the authority of Jabir that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded that I should fight against people till they declare that there is no god but Allah, and when they profess it that there is no god but Allah, their blood and riches are guaranteed protection on my behalf except where it is justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah, and then he (the Holy Prophet) recited (this verse of the Holy Qur'an):" Thou art not over them a warden" (lxxxviii, 22).

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Book 001, Number 0033:
It has been narrated on the authority of Abdullah b. 'Umar that the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, and they establish prayer, and pay Zakat and if they do it, their blood and property are guaranteed protection on my behalf except when justified by law, and their affairs rest with Allah.

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Book 001, Number 0034:
It Is narrated on the authority of Abu Malik: I heard the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) say: He who professed that there is no god but Allah and made a denial of everything which the people worship beside Allah, his property and blood became inviolable, an their affairs rest with Allah.

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Book 001, Number 0035:
Abu Malik narrated on the authority of his father that he heard the Apostle (may peace be upon him) say: He who held belief in the unity of Allah, and then narrated what has been stated above.

THOSE HADITH ARE OBVIOUSLY A THREAT TO ALL NON-MUSLIMS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH.

There is ample encouragement or jusitfication for violence in the Quran:

2.193 "And fight them on until there is no more Tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, Let there be no hostility except to those who practise oppression."

8.39 "And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do."

This is not fighting in self-defense, it is fighting to make the whole world submit to Islam.

YOU WROTE:

We believe that the Quran is comprehensive. Therefore, it has rules for war. Why is that so wrong? I know that very few Christians adhere to their religion and they brag about how unreligious they are. My honest opinion and I mean no offense when I say this, that Christianity as you have it is not practical and not comprehensive. I mean, turn the other cheek? Tell me how that works for you in this world. Even those who believe they are the impersonation of Christanity are asking to bomb us in our homes.

MY ANSWER

The Quran incites to violence not in self-defense but to spread the Faith. Muslims call this the law of war while in fact those quranic passages they refer to are a mere justification of the acts of war that the prophet perpetrated. If it were to be the law of war, a document like the Geneva convention would come out instead of stuff like:

8.67 It is not for any prophet to have captives until he hath made slaughter in the land. Ye desire the lure of this world and Allah desireth (for you) the Hereafter, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.
or

8.12 When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

My shariah handbook (Shafi'i) describes jihad as war against non-muslims until they accept islam. There is the principle of revenge as indicated in the following ayah:

2.194 The Sacred month for the sacred month and all sacred things are (under the law of) retaliation; whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you and be careful (of your duty) to Allah and know that Allah is with those who guard (against evil).

This ayah is a recipe for unlimited bloodshed because you will always think that what is done to you is worse than what you did so you take revenge again and again. This is what the sunni and shia are doing to each other in Iraq and other places.

The principle of turning the other cheek stops violence in the way Ghandi has shown it and in the way the Amish people in the US reacted when 5 of their girls were killed. They ask forgiveness for the killer and they comfort the widow of the killer who committed suicide. They don't burn down her house like muslims would do when they follow 2.194. This is real christianity practiced by too few christians but this is the way for christians to go. The way for muslims to go is to fight until everybody obeys Allah and all means are good for that even lying and deceiving (taqiyyah) and killing.

002.216 Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not.

I am sorry if I was a bit hard at times but I am afraid that the reality of Islam is very hard indeed .

Peace be with you Hamad

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