Re:

Submitted by salman (United States), Jan 11, 2007 at 15:57

>> My major point is not that God won't make you do one thing or the other but rather that he knows exactly what you are going to do well in advance of your creation. In which case what is the point of your wandering around on this earth for a few years before being lodged in your rightful place for eternity (heaven or hell).

You wrote: "You're using circular logic to try and make a point which is more or less invalid. My 'fate' may be written (see my previous reply), but it is not pre-determined. Through free-will, and praying for mercy/forgiveness/blessing (dua), you can change your 'fate' (http://www.islamawareness.net/Dua/power.html)."

Let me go through with this again with you. "My fate may be written but it is not pre-determined". Then what was written was wrong, wouldn't you agree if the that fate was changed by prayer etc.. So what Allah has written is wrong. How can that be. Let me put it another way. God wrote down (knew) you would end up in Hell. But you prayed did good works and perforce God had to send you to Heaven. So what happened to what he wrote (knew). You still think this is circular logic?

I think you are in a tough situation Salman. My guess is that your reason for insisting on such curious logic is that Koran itself says that it abrogates previous revelations with better or equal ones. Which means that God does not know during the first revelation that there were better ones available otherwise what was the point of the first revelation. <<

I can understand that you don't 'get' what I'm saying -- that's quite alright. Let me try to explain further what I mean and what my understanding is:

Say, for example, you wake up one morning and decide that you don't like so-and-so a person and you want to kill him/her. Now, it may be that you have all the intentions of going through with the act.. but someone who loves you very much prays and beesches God to make you see the right way of things because that person doesn't want you to go to prison or worse.

God, if he so wishes, may accept that person's prayers and change your destiny out of his mercy (in this case, overriding your free will). Not because he doesn't know what you would have done, but because someone else prayed for you so much and was a righteous enough person that he/she appealed enough to God's mercy and love that God decided to take away the bad thing that would have happend to you and gave you another chance.

But, then, it may be that you were never meant to do harm to that person and you, on your own, chose to not follow through with your decision.

You can call it madrassa learning, though I have never been to one, or 'Islamic logic' or whatever else you wish -- it seems obvious either way that you don't like Islam (or just religion, in general) and Muslims and do not agree with the teachings of Islam.

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