Sash, that's not quite correct

Submitted by Staight_Talk_Luigi (United States), Feb 2, 2008 at 21:23

Thanks for the reply.

First of all, statistics are statistics, and if the methodology is correct, then the stats are correct.

And I know this may disappoint you, but in reality of the 404,000 Catholic priests in world, most are not child predators. I think you're letting your Muslim and secular friends shape your attitude on this a little too much.

Just because you know people who are having children in Spain (which I think is great) doesn't mean that Europe as a whole is. I believe that urban secularism and a lack of traditional values (mainly from leaving Christianity and religion in general) are contributing to the low birth rates, and they are lowest in the world. I'm not sure when the Europeans are going figure that you need children (ones who agree with your values of democracy, that is) in order for civilization and culture to survive. For the all self-hated over there, it seems like some Europeans think that because they speak English as first or second language and that they are white that nothing bad can happen. History says otherwise.

The US is an entirely different ball-game. We have immigration mainly because we want the best minds in world (who doesn't), a lack of border security, and so we can keep ahead of China and India economically. Our population would still grow even we shut down all our borders. There has been massive intercultural mixing her for over 500 years. In Europe, you've really only had mass immigration for 20 years.
You bring up a good point about apartments and that, but I think that Western society has been brainwashed by this notion that some catasrophe will happen if we have big families, but I can assure you as an environmentalist, that radical Islam will be a problem long before global warming sets in.

I just think that a lot of people in the West are selfish. They have no kid. As for the ones that have the one or two: they spoil them rotten, complain about not having enough benefits (which requires a workforce and oh my! Children!), or that immigrants are rotten and lazy, when they are the reason why we even have government services. The reality is most people can have kids, if they just realize that not everyone of them can have their car, laptop or room. I know it's like a death sentence to some people, but it really boils down to that.

Seriously, just look at this board. You've been here longer than I have. I think I'm the only guy on here, and it makes sense: a lot of men in Europe just want to party their whole lives and screw around. The European women (which already outnumber the men), want normal lives with a family. So naturally, they are going to look elsewhere.

I doubt any of that will change. It would require too much effort and work, something which most of us try to avoid in a fast-paced world. I'm just saying there are consequences for that.

What you need to look at is something called the Total Fertility Rate---TFR. This tells how many babies per woman are born. It works like this: a woman needs to have two children--one to replace her and her mate. But, when you take into account wars, poverty and disease and crime, more children are needed. In stable places, a 2.1 average is needed. In places like Africa, well, a 3.3 average is needed. I'm sure you'll hear about how this is increasing in Europe, but why is it increasing? Probably because the immigrants are having children, not the native Europeans.

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