Response to Luigi

Submitted by Curios (United States), Sep 16, 2009 at 22:36

....these new changes that you praise and agree with are unsustainable and will not last. History has proven that over and over. Really, Curious, the fundamentals of this "change" have been done, tried and failed before and I already see signs it's coming apart at the seams.

Do you really see signs of it all coming apart at the seams, Luigi ? Examples, please. I am out in the work world every single day and all I see are signs of women's role in the work world, etc, getting stronger.

... Curious, because ... most of these little flings are. I never insinuated that you are having casual sex, but it's become very clear to me that you have some personal situation at stake here.

Yes, Luigi. I do have a personal situation that brought me here to this site and it's comforting to know that other people are experiencing same or similar situatons. The dilemma is being able to recognise and separate the wheat from the shaft, the good from the bad.

Fortunately, God has blessed me with a good and analytical brain, so I manage to get through my own situation fairly well. I do feel that it's important for me to make suggestions for women who may be struggling and endure the constant. nagging wonder of whether the man likes you for yourself or what monetary gain you might provide for him. The first of the two suggestions: 1. Tell him that you have no money to offer and all you can offer is a marriage, if that is what he truly wants. Be emphatic, tell him you're in as great a need financially as he is and then you will see, quickly, which way the cards fall. 2. Investigate him just as soon as he begins to demonstrate an interest in you, IF you think you want to pursue a relationship with him. Send him a remotely deployable software that will let you see exactly what he's up to online and how many other women he's speaking with, if any at all. Won't take more than a day or two to get at the truth of the matter.

But don't forget, Luigi ... this same sort of thing is going on between couples in the states, same age couples. I read about these all of the time, written by both men AND women. Seems the internet has really wrecked havoc on many an otherwise good marriage. It's really frightening and sad. Personally, I am as leary of a relationship with an American man as I am of a relation with a foreign man, for this reason (of any age).

I'm sorry, Curious, but such validity can hardly be confirmed by videos or pictures. I've already know three people (all women 22 or younger) who were the victims of people stealing their identity and setting up fake profiles. And I'm not asking anyone to reveal themselves on here. Personal contact information is often filtered out.

Well, Luigi, such thoughts of using someone else's pics may have occurred to you, but I assure you, they have never occurred to me because, after all, ultimately you may meet the individual to whom you provide pics and videos and then what? Nicht gut, Luigi. I can assure you that my videos and pics are mine, no one else's. Of course, Luigi, there is always webcam and I doubt that any 22 y/o woman out there would be able to discuss with you the details of the debates occurring on this forum. So, let me offer webcam and lengthy discussion in addition to the pics and videos suggestion. Or could it be that you are ashamed of how you look?

Oh, we've been through this before on here, Curious. The "but we are all different" excuse. The more things are different, the more they are the same .. And I get hit on by attractive older women a lot, but I also realize that I don't really want to be with someone who is 55-60 by the time I am 40.

Well, Luigi ... if you don't know by now that people are all individual, with separate and distinct personalities, then you haven't learned much in life, at all. As for you being with a 55-60 y/o at 40, you're right, I doubt there is a chance of that because they will all be looking for someone much younger :-)

Eventually, Curious, age will set in. That will be the real test.

Yes, Luigi. And it usually sets in for men at a much younger age with all of that balding and putting on of the spare tire, usually quite evident in most men by age 40 !!

Much to our own detriment, but do not worry. Conservative elements around the globe will prevail as they always have for the last 10,000 years. Stability and strength of family will begin to overshadow progressive feminism this century, especially in the EU.

Oh Oh, Luigi ... you did miss your History, Political Science, and Macro Economics university courses, did you not?? Thank God that we were delivered from conservative ideology and sent the very liberal FDR at the onset of Great Depression. Hail to FDR who brought us up from the toilet of conservatism to status of world power and a booming post war economy.

Actually, there are well-documented cases about distance relationships and their bizarreness and failure over the phone and by letter. The internet is just another media by which this happens.

Really? Send us a link to a few ten or more of these examples.

Not when it comes to proximity and the fact that our words make up less than 30% of overall communication. Nonetheless, if you are seeing the guy next door and he spends all night on-line and wants a quick marriage, well, those are always signs of trouble.

Yes, I agree with the guy next door scenario. But, as for words making up 30% of overall communication ... I'm not really guite sure about that. Body language and facial expressions are important, I agree, but there is really nothing like getting the spoken word and watching for deviations in the story. These deviations tell the tale every single time ... the words. I rely on this online, at work, in any situation that requires dealing with people on an ongoing basis. Eventually they are going to slip if they're lying, regardless of whether you're looking straight at them or 10,000 miles away talking on a computer. A liar is a liar and they do what liars do best, they lie.

No, Curious, we live on the same planet, and on-line, distance dating has an even worse success rate because of the communication gap.

Luigi, I don't see a communication gap. But what I do see is a potential for the relation to end because it cannot come to fruition. Some people will travel to meet, but others are not willing to do so. In the case of the later, then of course the relation will disolve. As for domestic relations, I read every single day on Yahoo and elsewhere about domestic relations gone wild and often times due to a partner's side extravaganzas on the internet.

Because women mature faster than men and ultimately want a man who they are secure with and who can protect them. Most of the "relationships" involving younger men and older women do not end well or progress beyond a sex buddy style relation. It's also largely based on appearance. Just listen to some of the stories on here, Curious. Some women are adamantly insisting they do not look their age but younger. So, in that sense, the woman does not seem older than the man, which really does throw another wrench into your argument.

Women may mature faster, but men often look older much faster. I think this is the reason for many women's preference for the younger man ... as well, the younger man has a fresh (unsoured) insite that an older man lacks. Seems to me fairly obvious, Luigi. We have a rash of younger men rushing the older women, not younger women rushing the older men. Think about that for a minute. Most young men I know will prefer an attractive woman, of any age. It's not the fault of women for staying more attractive for longer periods of time than men.

What is going on the domestic is the same thing that happens on the international front---sexual flings, not stable relationships.

Yes, exactly right, Luigi.

No one is suggesting that logic alone equals love, but in this me-first, emotional era of living, it is pretty always the one element missing and that's why so many women on this forum have problems.

Yes, sad but true, Luigi. We shouldn't have to put logic ahead of our feelings, but if we want to survive, we must.

If you don't know, then just say so, Curious. There is no need to take a poll, because all one has to do is look at the dating trend. First of all, more white men in this country date internationally and interracially than white women. Most of the women on this site who have tried or are in international relationships are either divorced, have had extended relationships with men in proximity to them that went nowhere or have been screwed over and hurt. That is why they look internationally, because they see it as a last bastion of hope.

Oh, I dont think so, Luigi. Personally, I find American men terribly boring. As for the men dating more internationally, I'm not quite sure about that, it's possible. But you can bet that if it's an older man dating a younger woman, she probably wants him only for his money and a free ride to America.

We don't have to have a zero birth rate to be in big trouble, Curious. Anything less than 2.1 will do. Just ask the Europeans as to why they put up with riots and crime from immigrants---they need the numbers. It's as simple as that. Everything from burning cars in France to trashing shops in Estonia to chants of NUKE NUKE DENMARK on the streets in broad daylight in Copenhagen.

Yes, I'm well aware, Luigi. Well, Luigi ... we here in America have the Mexicans. Should we thank God they're not muslim?

I don't think I am at all, Curious. You want to keep this about very general trends so that you can just keep arguing from your own personal observations.

Yes, I argue from my own personal observations, just like we all do, Luigi.

Curious, I will NOT accept birth control as a viable option. Perhaps it would interest you to know that it may reach a point where Western women will evolve to NOT get pregnant thanks to birth control.

Oh please ...

** You mean opting for a "career" instead of a family? More times than naught, I find such decisions to be selfish. Yet, many women do this because they have to in order to maintain a decent standard of living, not because they want to be some ideallic beacon of change.

That is what my logical mind sees, and logic and idealism are a poor match, Curious.

That's right, Luigi. Logic and idealism are a poor match. You should take your own advice on that count.

Better? Better for who, Curious? The selfish feminist who blames all of her problems on white men and who doesn't want to have any kids but expects her way of thinking and living to continue on?

Yes, exactly right, Luigi!

Luigi, in case you didn't know it, the reason American power was at an "all time apex", or America being established as a world power by the 1950's had absolutely nothing to do with the 1950's American housewife and everything to do with the FDR administration's policies for dealing with the Great Depression and it's subsequent merge into WWII with the Allied European countries ... really, Luigi, you do grasp at straws.

First of all, FDR was the worst President ever.

OMG ... Luigi. I didn't realise until now that you are truly demented! Thank God for FDR, he was this country's light and salvation. Without him, we would be a third world country today.

Actually, I personally know of several Catholic women who prefer such a lifestyle to the empty materialism of working or "having a career" to merely obtain a bunch of junk that has no value whatsoever.

Really? Why don't we ever here this perspective from these women, Luigi?

The explanation for that is very simple: Because they, like most Muslim-Muslim couples, do not need to come on the internet and discuss their relationships. Why? Because they are secure and trust each other and could care less what we think, Curious. They don't need third party confirmation about the validity of their partner and are not looking for some kind of deranged approval rating, encouragement or attention from total strangers on the most intimate aspects of their lives.

Certainly not what I read, Luigi. I see, all of the time, forums about local (American) cheating wives and husbands of every age. I don't call these "secure and trusting" relations.

Really? Then why do some women on here refute the wonderful advice given and proceed anyways? They are more convincing than you seem to realize.

I don't know, Luigi. A fool never learns? Well, possibly. Or it could be that we all have to play the fool at some point in order to learn from the experience. What's the old saying? Fool me once, shame on you but fool me twice, then shame on me.

I'm not so sure a movement would jump on your bandwagon of generalizations. Simply "letting the times speak for themselves" is not enough, not by a long shot. And our society is conditioned to make women who choose to be homemakers feel like they are not accomplishing anything.

No, Luigi. I think it's the remnants of this conservative era we've experienced with it's towering inflation and greed that forces our women have to work.

Well, Curious, out-of-wedlock mothering destabilizes civilizations. So does contraception.

I've certainly never once discussed or advocated for "out-of-wedlock" mothering. You've got me confused with someone else.

Exactly. There's a lot of men out there who are jerks and it's the number one reason why women go looking abroad for decent men.

I agree with that statement, Luigi. And, unfortunately, many foreign men are more educated, better conversationalists, just more interesting all the way around. Still yet, caution is the operative word.

Don't get too confused, Curious. The only reason women on here defend Islam is because they are attracted to an Islamic man. It's the same thing as when a woman stands up in a courtroom defending her ...

Possibly, and probably. But realistically, we shouldnt confuse one with the other, the religion with the actions of the people. After all, we are a Christian nation, but look at what George Bush has done to America's international image.

Also, you'll have to show me the precise links of Muslim posters on here defending Islam, because I do not see it. Every so often someone will come on here and request that not all Muslims get generalized, which is a fair point, but those requests are radically different from the accusations of islamophobia and racism against regular posters who merely point out the facts, facts that pretty disprove the legimaticy of said person's "relationship".

Hmmmm ... rephrase that statement, please.

1) If my comprehension is so "pathetic", why do respond with such vigor and detail? I guess you just can't stand what I have to say. It would also explain your quick responses.

Why? Because I do it every day at work, Luigi. It's ingrained in me and has nothing whatsoever to do with you. Of course, I will argue for what I believe is right, just like you do.

2) I find your insults rather amusing, Curious, and your posts clearly indicate that you have some kind of personal stake here that goes beyond having just younger male friends.

I wouldn't find the insult too amusing, Luigi, considering that you're reading many, many words and thoughts into my post that I dont put there. For instance, trying to insinuate that i'm an advocate of "out of wedlock" motherhood and the other "sexual" references, neither of which I've mentioned. So, with that being said, I still think you could benefit from some "reading for comprehension".

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