red herrings back in business

Submitted by the Grand Infidel of Kaffiristan (Australia), Apr 29, 2009 at 20:35

Mr. Berk Akk (pbuh) writes:

"Of course I know the meaning of "prove".In order to make a proof ,first of all there must be a healthy theory.For example ,let me take your muslim as subject and assume it is true knowing some facts SS had used groups for their goals in many parts of world .First ,Please remember a part of our discussion was started on whether muslims were responsible for WW2 german SS action and death of millions of people all over the world..."

As you can see in your previous posts - what you said was that there was NO Islamic or Muslim involvement in WW2. I quoteyour words:
""Dear sir unfortunately there was nobody from islam and turkish side in those wars where 50 miilion young ,kids and olders were killed. So before claiming others take a look at the history .""

It was then pointed out that Muslims were indeed involved with the SS in large numbers.

You are twisting things now - trying to prove a point which you did not make. Now you're trying to say it was the SS fault that Muslims were involved!

In 1945, Yugoslavia sought to indict the Mufti as a war criminal for his role in recruiting 20,000 Muslim volunteers for the SS, who participated in the killing of Jews in Croatia and Hungary.

Note these 20,000 were volunteers - it would be a safe bet to wager that most of the other 400,000 went willingly to war - in fact I can imagine many welcomed the prospect of having the opportunity of dying for both Allah AND the Fuhrer.

"Remembering the basic point of the discussion ,shall we assume followings are proved?

1)All muslims are in the side of SS army?(Allgemeine SS ?)

That point was never put forward by anybody - so it is another straw man argument. No one ever said that all Muslims were on the side of the SS. What you said was that NO muslims were involved in WW2 - let alone fighting with the Axis powers. You have not yet admitted you were wrong. In fact - you will probably find that in North Africa - there would have been local Muslims who assisted the British troops and Australian and New Zealand troops - as well as those who assisted the Germans. They were helpful to both sides - what does that tell you - that they were particularly charitable ?.

2)2,6 % muslim volunteers designed the war and managed SS army and secret german war plans?Made huge german weapons ,secred bases,and rockets later used for moon landing.?submarines ,missiles,aircrafts ...

You are setting up a ridiculous proposition - everyone knows muslims did not develop this technology. No one will argue that they did - so why mention it?

"Even today there are still military actions among bosnian,serbians and hırvats.It is hard to make a direct correlation with ss action."

What has that got to do with the established fact of Muslim involvement with the SS in WW2?

"Thousands of ordinary jewish citisens expulsied from various part of Europe refuged to "a muslim country" Turkey."

as you know from history - Turkey negotiated treaties of neutrality with all sides in WW2 including the Soviets. It left it till 10 weeks before the European war ended when it was clear who was losing - before declaring war on Germany.

23 February 1945: Turkey declared war on Germany, and later on Japan, three months before the armistice.

Technically Turkey was a NEUTRAL country - so had to accept refugees - of all sorts. Sweden, Switzerland , Ireland were also neutral countries and had their share of refugees. The fact that most of its population were muslims was irrelevant. And I'm sure Turkey was well aware how useful it would have been for them to have an influx of highly educated Jewish scientists and doctors into 'secular' Turkey

"Thousands of jewish scientists and artists did the same.Even Turkish Parliment assembly building was architected by such a scientist.( prof dr.Clemens Holzmeister).Name of more than 1000 jevish is known, to be sheltered by special help of atatürk in 1933."

A wonderful example of Germany and Turkey were equalizing their national average IQ.

"2.Thousands of such refuges not only sheltered in Turkey but employed too.Yes.. high grade employements.Universities,hospitals..I can inform you many faculty founders."

That is not surprising at all. We see the excellent academic record of the Jewish diaspora up until the present day - over 140 Nobel prizes have been won by Jewish people.

"3-Not only jews but even Greek refuges to a "muslim country! Yes.Not tens,hundreds..but ..50-60 Thousands.sheltered."

A NEUTRAL country, close by - that just happened to be Muslim. Jews went anywhere they could to get away from the persecution. Turkey was conveniently located a relatively short boat ride across the Black Sea.

"4-I can also inform you sources of information about hundreds of thousands of killed muslims in russian side by ss army during russian war."

But you said there were NO muslims involved in WW2 at all - now you've contradicted yourself by saying many fought with the Russians?"...

"if the subject is WHOM responsibility of killed miilions in ww2 ,yes i can prove the responsibility is 100% The ss army and its designers.Could i have a small success in my proof?"

The subject was NOT who was responsible for the killings of millions in WW2 - it was you statement that NO muslims were involved or took sides in WW2. Research shows 400,000 fighting with the SS - and now you say 'hundreds of thousands of killed muslims' on the Soviet side. So indeed - if everyone of those 400,000 SS muslms plus hundreds of thouands of Soviet Muslim troops had killed just ONE enemy force - they might ndeed have killed close to one million people.

Facts prove otherwise and unfortunately you have zero success

Best regards

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