"Turk" means in Osmanlica "barbarian". In many European languages it means the same.

Submitted by Ianus (Poland), Jan 5, 2009 at 10:24

OzTurk (True Turk) wrote :

>Firstly "Osmanlica" has been obsolete for a while now and is not relevant to what is spoken (or thought) in modern Turkey.<

First, shall I thank you for not questioning the obvious fact : In Ottoman Turkey a Turk was seen as a barbarian which found its expression in the language of the educated classes? This subtle language of your educated grandfathers (I suppose you had none as c. 95% of Turks were illiterate) has quite a lot to do with what is thought and sppken in today's Turkey. Contrary to Kemal's bolshevik dreams the past can't be dropped at will. It's here , it's everywhere around us. It's in every Persian and Arabic word that are still current in Turkey ... like "vatan", "kebab" or "merhebe"... The whole vocabulary of Islamic Turkey is Osmalica ...gazi, gazavat, gavurlar, cami, cihad, şehitler ...

> Too bad for you, your mind frame is also a few centuries old (like "osmanlica") <

A few centuries...? So how many centuries ago did Gazi Kemal Mutafa Pasha die according to your sources? It was his language and the language of his generation even though he later rejected it as he rejected and betrayed so many persons that made his career possible! You have lost any sense of time, Moslem!

> as you cling on to the belief that "pashas" still rule the roost..<

Of course, they do as this "roost" is an awkwardly disguised military dictatorship and the pashas are technically those 300 generals and admirals of Turkish armed forces that control everything in Turkey . They stage the farce of Turkish democracy.

http://mondediplo.com/2000/09/10turkey

or

http://www.chris-kutschera.com/A/turkish_military.htm

Are you so naive as not to know what is a public secret ? Are you ... to believe Turkey is similar to any Western state because she has adpoted Western clothes? In fact, the well-known Ottoman relics and habits are still alive everywhere under the patched veil of "modernity". The Turkish bolshevik could reject the past as much as he liked. The past didn't obey. The Kemalist revolution just reinforced many old traditions and ills.

>..Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if you also believed that horse carriages and camels are still widely used within major Turkish cities..<

Have you ever been to Cappadocia or a few miles away from any major Turkish city? It's a fine trip ... back to the Middle Ages. I think it what attracts tourists to Turkey so much. They just want to submerge in the antedeluvian age.

> I've also noticed ... you seem to confuse the secular-Turk with Islam with such a contradictory description as "Islamo-kemalist".. What does that mean ????<

It does mean that secularism is a misunderstanding or a swindle as applied to Turkey . Turkey is a 99,8% Islamic monoculture. Check it in the CIA Factbook! Those 0,2% are Jews, Christians and others. Somehow , you don't see any sizebale number of atheists or agnostics anywhere. And Kemalism is just a different word for the well-known Turkish war-lordism and militarism and the Oriental personality cult. The army is as Islamic as the whole Turkish society and wearing or not wearing a head scarf or a fez is meaningless.

So "Islamo-Kemalist" means "Islamic and militarist" which exactly describes the character of Kemal's original movement - an anti-Greekm, anti-Western major jihad (büyük cihad ) for which he was justly given the supreme Moslem title of Gazi - the Holy Warrior of Islam! ...

It's hard to imagine that when you hear nothing but the Turkish official lies and think nothing else but the twisted self-glorifying Kemalist newspeak they impose upon your inflexible Moslem mind.

>And I see you're salivating at the illogical thought that every Turk should be seen as anti-western, almost pro-taliban/Al Qaeda, and therefore too radical to be an ally of the USA.<

Are you referring to the sources quoted in Dr. Pipes' article? If you do, then where are they wrong? If not, then what's your point? Turkish perfidy is obvious.

>Never mind the millions of agnostics/atheists, not to mention the millions of others who are very secular and anti-sharia, but naturally we can't let that fact get in the way of your "intellectual" hypothesis now can we ??<

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/tu.html

"Turkey (...) Religion :Muslim 99.8% (mostly Sunni), other 0.2% (mostly Christians and Jews) "

Somehow the CIA experts can't see " the millions of agnostics/atheists, not to mention the millions of others who are very secular and anti-sharia" while you who don't seem even to be an expert on big-mouthed pro-Turkish propaganda do see them, millions of them. Of course, your imupent suggestion is that we should believe you, not the Armenian-Greek "liars" who have put together the statistics in the CIA Factbook , what?

>Turk = Muslim/radical/anti-western for sure..black and white in your world ???<

Not in my world, in Islam's world, Moslem!

>I wonder if you're capable of thinking outside the "square" or just impervious to change and blinded with your obsessed old hatred for the Turk as only the greek and/or armenian can be.<

Again your favourite trick of making any critic of "Turkishness" Greek and/or Armenian? I told you to concentrate on the factual charges. You haven't written a line on the message of "The Valley of the Wolves", for instance. Why? Do you admit that I am right and you are wrong , Moslem ?

Frankly, hint that you are afraid of 4 years in jail for admitting anything wrong about Turkish ... How sweet to be Turk! ... How sweet not to be an inmate of a Turkish prison! ... Happy he who has never been tortured and molested by the beastly Turkish police! ...

>Not too different from that demented old lady in a "Big Fat greek wedding" running around with a knife yelling turk turk??<

Are you referring to some movie on the Greek genocide committed by the Kemalist hordes in Smyrna and Pontus? Indeed, after learning the story of a woman whose all male family had been slaughtered under her eyes and then she was forced by the Kemalist beasts to eat the human flesh of her murdered child one can get mad... But as all in today's Turkey - it's nothing new. It's the old Turkish story retold , it's the past that is still there inspite of all the magic skills and chants of Gazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha and his successors.

>Your fanatical, fixated viewpoint coupled with your silly ranting is best displayed by your "smart" addition to "Ne Mutlu Turkum Diyene".....If you were'nt such a sad person you'd be funny.<

Privately, I prefer : "Ne mutlu lehim diyene!" Anyway, we never use that. We don't have the psychopathic conflict of being half-Greeks and half-Armenians and half-Bulgarians and the need imposed by the psychopathic environment to manifest our Turkishness so aggressively as to silence our memory. Anatolian Turks are mostly a bastard nation. They are Islamized Greeks and anything but Turks like Uzbeks or Kazakhs who belong to the yellow race.

Anyway, it's remarkable how easily such a ... Turk can be brain-washed and made a fanatic Turkish nationalist. But still the educated speakers of Osmanlica knew why and so they called a "Turk" simply "barbarian".

>See this is what I meant by the subject of Turk makes you froth at the mouth, and sadly I can't imagine your clan to be any different..<

You're right in a sense! No one who has the slightest knowledge of what Turkey stands for can cherish other feelings than disgust and indignation about the Turkish ways and yet rmembering the meaning "Turk" in Osmalica can't but admire the perspicacity of the educated classes of the Ottoman Empire.

> My latest advise for you would be to arm yourself and to join the ranks of the PKK terrorist organisation up in the Kandil mountain range, preferably before the next Turkish onslaught please.<

OK! I'll warn the Kurdish governor to ask his US allies to increase the US presence around him because another cowardly Turkish terrorist assassination just like the one on Independence Day in 2003 is underway!

>That may just cure you ... :-)<

Hopefully, we meet somewhere in the region...

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