to lisa: then pray tht i get good grades this semester

Submitted by tariq (United Arab Emirates), Feb 14, 2006 at 11:48

"defending islam and muslim from an islamic point of view is very similar ro saying that islam now is in danger in the West so muslims must attack the West in order to defend Islam."

Read my last comment to Boris:
"When did i say tht muslims should not be loyal to their country? wen did i say tht muslims should break the laws of land if the laws are against Islam. Muslims can negotiate, but if they are unsuccessful in getting their their right to freely practice their religion, they should leave their country."

"How about you look at it this way, imagine if muslims numbers exceeded christians in the West, isn't this similar to the situation Muhammad had in Medina, the same situation that made him "defend" Islam by attacking surrounding tribes"
No it wont be. cuz im sure that non-muslims in the west will be tolerant enuf to let the muslims practice their religion.(also even though the muslims had become the majority in madina, the whole of arabia was still non-muslim, and having close relations with makkan pagans, they attacked the muslims many times.)

"Muhammad justified all of the violence actions toward Mecca and toward the tribes around Medina simply because he decided that Islam was in danger"
he didnt DECIDE. Common sense will tell you that you are in danger. or the the sight of an army which is 5 times more powerful than u standing in your backyard.

"Tariq, I just can't believe how deceived and how brainwashed muslims like you are."
Is this y i have answers to all your comments, but yet get no arguments in return? Is this y till now no1 has been able to justify the refernces i gave to the bible?

"How was islam in danger when muslims invaded Constintine empire, Roman Empire, etc?"
It wasnt. Islam also allows us to fight for the rights of others(if they are oppressed, even if they are non-muslims)
Roman Empire attacked Muslims as muslims were growing fast and acquiring more territories.
Bazantine was attacked as they themselves had prepared a hug army against muslims. So the early caliphates send an army to fight them. Ethopias ruler had accepted Islam and because of this, Islam starting spreading there, and to free ppl from opressive rulers, other parts of africa and spain were also conquered. In all these areas, non-muslims were allowed to live a free life and only pay a little jizya. this is y Islam took many years to become the prevalent religion(in spain it is not prevalent even though muslims ruled for more than 700 years. my question is HOW?????)
Spain was probably, you can say,the last straw and the crusades started.

How many Qs did i ask u? 10? u answered only 2

"To answer your questions, when someone attacks me, yes I will defend myself only when I have no other choice and will make sure that nu blood will be shed..."
for this u have to be MUCH faster and powerful then your opponent. this is still possible for one on one fight, but not wen USA attacks Iraq or wen 1000 Quraish attack 313 hungry and underarmed muslims.

" however this is what islam failed in"
Know anything about the conquest of makkah?

"Muslims at the begining of Islam were oppressed for 10-13 years, very similar to how christians are opressed in Islamic countries today "
YOU HAVE NO IDEA HOW MUSLIMS WERE OPPRESSED IN THOSE DAYS
also i live in a muslim majority country. and i have many non-muslim friends. i have seen many countrys with non-muslim minoritys. there are VERY FEW cases of 'oppression' against them(in most muslim countrys) which dont come EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO WHAT the pagans did.
(i admit that countries like Iran and Afghanistan are MUCH worse than countries like malaysia and even Bangladesh, but still they are nothing wen compared to wot the Quraish used to do)

" so Muhammad decided to defend Islam only when he started to have power, by invading, looting, etc"
Actually no. during Badr the muslims were like Mexico is to US. infact they were even weaker.
and he didnt attack, he was defending. and the only 'looting' he did was taking booty, which is not a crime. Y not cover some of your physical and financial damage thru stuff that your enemy leaves behind while running back to their country?

"can you deny that Muhammad and his followers took women as captive,."
Dont u know that even women fought during his time? now this happened VERY rarely, but it did happened.
'killed'
what would u do to a person that kills all your relatives?

'looted'
looted whom? the solders after war? wots wrong with that?

"If you deny this then you don't know about your history...
i didnt deny

"...and if you justify it then..."
I cant deny i cant justify. wot should i do? lol are u setting a trap?

"I am going to discontinue this discussion "
Of course. thats wot u do wen some1 proves u wrong. i dont blame u. many muslims dont understand islam. y should a non-muslim?

"and will only pray for your confused soul."
If u want to pray for me, then pray to Allah.

If Mosques are being burned what do you think muslims' reaction is, according to Muhammad, this is a clear sign that Islam is in danger, and justify defending islam by teaching a lesson to the opressors, is that right?
Wrong. first u ask them to live in peace. if they dont and keep on burning the mosques amongst many other things, then u migrate. if they are still bent on killing you, then you fight.

"Now, Churches are being burned and Christians are being killed and opressed"
Does not happen as often as u think it does.(tht does not mean im justifying it. im against it.)
and also replace churches with mosques and christians with muslims, and youll have more cases yet much lesser reportings. eg 1 american or eurapean dies in iraq and the whole world starts crying. kill a 1000 muslims... no effect. even i have gotten used to listening in the news some injustice done to muslims by US and it allies.

"the message I am trying to send is that, GOD created this wonderful world for all people to enjoy"
Answering my questions would have a better effect. especially justifying bible

"Jesus came with a message that can't have two meanings, making Peace is much harder than making wars and destruction, thats what Jesus meant when he said "Love your enemies as much as you love yourself". "turn the other cheek". "
All the prophets of God taught peace.

"Violence in human history has only created violence"
then y it it that most of the ppl here who are intolerant of Islam are christians? they are in a way spreading e-violence. specially the anti-islamic websites created by ppl like ali sina.

"the world has started to realize the message of Christ, it took them 2000 years but I am sure that it may take much longer before the world realize that they can not take wars any more, next war may have a mass destruction to all humanity."
I just wish muslim themselves knew how much peace and tolerance the Quran teaches.

"Chrsitians were persecuted and tortured for 300 hundred years before Christianity became the religion of the Roman Empire but never attacked back"
because christians were weak. but wen they became strong, they started bullying. and they still do(no arms for muslim countries. but sell them all to Israel, japan korea taiwan and india)

"unforunately until the crusaders who were defending the christians lands from muslims,"
defending the lands so that they can torment the civilian muslims, and jews living there.

"crusaders never justified by the bible or by Jesus' teachings."
thank God

"Yes, I am against any kind of war or violence,...
even if russia attacks US?

"against killing criminals"
you'll change your views wen a criminal murders our loved 1(God forbid)

"and against cutting thiefs hands"
but its effective

"there are so many constructive ways to punsih criminals other than death."
like wot? how do u punish a psychopath like saddam who enjoys killing ppl? how do u punish his sons who tortured/killed players of their football team cuz they lost a game?(thanks God atleast theyre dead) do u think saddam deserves anything better than death?(PLZ ANSWER THIS ONE)

"And when someone "God forbid" take a life of my loved ones, according to Christianity, there is community right that this criminal should fulfill,..."
did u ever read Leviticus 20:9 NLT????

"but I will forgive him"
as you said, action speak louder than words!

"isn't this what John Paul II to his turkish attacker?"
Did john paul die of that attack? if he had, i would have supported a death sentence against the attacker as long as the turkish was unable to provide evidence that the pope comited a crime punishable by death.

"Jesus had a high regard for human life and human dignity, he didn't only teach this he practised it by paying his own life to give an example to humanity."
i know . all prophets are like that.

"Tariq, Quran is even confusing to muslims preachers, they are sending so many conflicting messages because even Muhammad himself sent conflicting messages during his life and his preaching of islam."
you are the one who is confused.

"Please open your mind and heart"
is already open

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