To Raqib regarding "?" , hatred, and science.

Submitted by Plato (United Arab Emirates), Dec 23, 2006 at 01:59

Brother Raqib you have not said anything about God's inability to protect his words before the revelation of the Koran (assuming, of course, that the Koran is now in the same pristine form as when revealed). You seem to accept that man can defile god's holy words. From what you say it seems that God waited for centuries, noted that his words had been distorted, looked around for a language (Arabic) that would not be defiled and sent down the Koran to Muhammad. Nor do you have anything to say about God's inability to see the future. Would it mean that based on what I said God's powers are limited?

In that post of yours you also had this challenge: "Find a single verse in Qur'an which is unscientific. Find a single verse which is wrong. Brother Raqib you are looking for science in the Koran. Science nowhere says that the sun is both moving and stationery! The Koran gives all kinds of odd activities indulged in by the sun. It sets in a murky/muddy pond where some people were found living. It goes and hides under the throne of God. ( If you insist I can give you the verse numbers, I can't remember at the moment). And now you say that some verses tell us the sun is moving and some that it is stationary. Quantum mechanics does have some incredible stuff like that but that is at the sub-microscopic level not at the level of stars and planets. Certainly since God created quantum mecahnical laws he can also extend it to the macro level. However, there is no evidence of it yet. The miracles (science) of Allah are indeed incredible!

You say that I have read only that verse. You are wrong. I have read the whole Koran three times, not in Arabic, but in three English translations. I can dig out for you any number of unscientific and contradictory verses. They are all over the net.

You say: "Such verses tells us that surely the Sun is also moving, not stationery. However in our solar system "the sun runs to its resting place". The sun is also moving, not stationary. What does "also moving" mean. Your next sentence seems to imply that it goes and rests ie does not move. So the sun runs to a resting place. My question is what does it do in the resting place. Has it stopped moving or not. Anyway so far no scientist has observed the sun resting anywhere in the solar system.It is rotating with the Milky way and is also involved in the expansion of the universe. So is your challenge answered?

What if the Koran has remained unaltered for twelve centuries. What does that tell us apart from the fact the people who transcribed them were very good and faithful to the original they had in their hands. Has Homer's Illiad been corrupted. Has Shakespeare's plays been corrupted. And now with modern copying not even a comma will change for the next millennium and more. Divinly inspired?

Why are you quoting Muir. In asking the question whether William Muir is naive you seem to approve of him. Are you willing to go with all Muir has said about the Prophet and Islam? I would like your reply.

As to the question mark "(Surah Ya?sin, 38)". which seems to have offended you I plead my innocence. I cut and pasted it from your post. That is how it came out from Danielpipes.org or maybe from my browser. I once even complained to them about one of my blogs being pulverised.

Your quote from the Koran:

" Deaf, dumb and blind. They will not return " (Qur'an 2:18) --

3:85

3:151

5:14 And with those who say: "Lo! we are Christians," We made a covenant, but they forgot a part of that whereof they were admonished. Therefor We have stirred up enmity and hatred among them till the Day of Resurrection, when Allah will inform them of their handiwork (Allah himself stirring up enemity among people) But as for those who disbelieve, for them is fire of hell; it taketh not complete effect upon them so that they can die, nor is its torment lightened for them. Thus We punish every ingrate.

35:36

9:30

Brother Raqib I can go on quoting many more in similar vein where threats, curses and the tortures of hell are detailed in excruciating detail.

And what was the unforgivably great crime committed to bring forth such merciless treatment of human beings created by the all-knowing merciful God? The poor sods were born into religions other than Islam (by the will and benign influence of this all-knowing Allah. ) and because Allah willed them to be born to unbelieving parents and under the weight of their culture, parental pressure, and environment the unbelievers seemed to think that a block of stone could perphaps represent this ALMIGHTY, or perhaps the poor misguided souls thought there was no almighty at all.

Now why does Allah favour some souls, like you and more than a billion others, by letting them be born into Muslim households, whereas other poor souls are condemned beforehand to be born into unbelieving households. None of them were asked before hand whether they wanted to be born into believing or unbelieving homes. What a just God this is! For that stupendously unforgivable crime (shirk, mushrik or whatever) their souls are put through unimaginably horrible tortures and terrors for eternity. That is your MOST merciful, MOST benevolent Allah for you. If that REALLY is the love and kindness of the benevolent Allah who needs it? Brother Raqib tell me seriously, is this the God you believe in?

Interestingly, Brother Raqib, does not that quote of yours just go to prove what the Koran thinks of "unbelievers"? Did you read the foregoing verses to 2:18. I did.

2:03 "Those who believe in the unseen and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them."

2:05 These are on a right course from their Lord and these it is that shall be successful.

2:06 Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe.

2:07Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.

2:09 They desire to deceive Allah and those who believe, and they deceive only themselves and they do not perceive.

2:14 And when they meet those who believe, they say: We believe; and when they are alone with their Shaitans, they say: Surely we are with you, we were only mocking

Obviously these verses refer to the so-called Hypocrites. What are they being told? If they believe in the unseen (what is this unseen) they will be on the right path. Here you are being told to believe in the unseen and those who don't are accused of being blind. Divine logic no doubt. That it is no use warning them. Allah has sealed their hearts, their ears and eyes. And the merciful God then promises them a great punishment. Again some kind unfathomable divine logic.Deaf, dumb and blind why would I, or anyone else for that matter, wish to return to such a deity.

Muslims always accuse non-muslims of quoting the Koran out of context or of poor translation, the perennial excuses whenever anything unpalatable is pointed out. Now I have quoted as many verses that seemed relevant to me for your out of context quote. Can you dispute the conclusion I have come to?

Brother Raqib you have avoided answering several points I raised in my previous post but instead chose tobring that time-worn accusation of hatred of Islam. Please address the issues that have been raised in this and the previous post.

Warm regards

Plato

The Jews call 'Uzair a son of God, and the Christians call Christ the son of God. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. God's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth! We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they ascribe unto Allah partners, for which no warrant hath been revealed. And whoso seeketh as religion other than the Surrender (to Allah) it will not be accepted from him, and he will be a loser in the Hereafter I get the message Brother Raqib. A silly mistake (not by me)like typing Surah with a ? mark inside the word Surah makes you think that I am some kind of Muslim hater. Far from it. My intention is to throw some light into the minds of blind believers in scriptures whatever they are.Even the mildest criticism brings forth accusations of insult, hatred etc.Why are you people so insecure? Silly things get your hackles up. Like those cartoons. All fine. Except that you expect others to not only tolerate but accept without demur virulence directed against "unbelievers". Compare the "?" in the word Sur?ah to these:

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